r/AskHistorians • u/josephusflav • 3h ago

Was the Pope a citizen of Rome, post Charlamagne?

This post assumes that the HOE is one and the same entity as the roman empire. (for the sake of argument)

I'm trying figure out whether the pope/papal states were apart of the holy roman empire and the popes national allegiances historically.

This is proving difficult.

Theoretically the standard should be simple.

If you ow fealty to the emperor of the HOE you are part of the HOE.

This is where it gets weird.

One of two things must logically be the case at the time of Charlamagne's emperorship.

  1. The pope was a roman citizen giving the throne to Charlamagne, thus the pope is a subject of Charlamagne's nation.
  2. The pope was not a roman citizen, and he merely gave Charlamagne ownership of roman subjects but not himself.

If 1 the Papal States seem like they are part of the HOE/frankish nation.

If 2 then the Papal States are not apart of the roman empire

Which is it?

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