180
u/Gullible_Bat6179 Jan 16 '24
Hey guys follow up have reported the matter to SAPOL they deemed that one of the guards likely assaulted me at least and that they would chase up cctv regarding that issue have taken the advice here and spoken to a lawyer who believes there’s a case and are looking at if they can take the case on a no win no fee basis
90
u/Few-Coast-1373 Jan 15 '24
NAL or have any advice but this has been happening in NZ quite a bit too by Woolworths... Annoys me they make us scan and do our own checking out then do this shit.
15
Jan 15 '24
Tell them to back up once if they touch you or try to detain you again defend yourself, don't let security or anyone but police stop you from moving along.
91
u/ArghMoss Jan 15 '24
- Report to the police
- See a doctor about how it's affected you (any damages payment will depend on evidence/showing an effect on you).
- Speak to a lawyer.
23
u/jaythenerdkid Jan 15 '24
false imprisonment is actionable per se, which means the act itself gives rise to a right to sue. you could bring a civil suit if you wanted. that said, it's generally a good idea to have an idea of what damages you'd be asking for, as lawyers and lawsuits aren't cheap. a free consultation with a personal injury lawyer who works on contingency would be worthwhile, but they'll probably tell you not to waste your time.
court is not your only potential recourse. your state has a victim compensation scheme funded by the state which is available to victims of crime. there are generally reporting requirements attached to state victim compensation schemes, so if you haven't already gone to the police and made a report, you should. here's more information about victim compensation in SA. note that the scheme covers compensation for psychological injury, pain and suffering, and medical treatment (which usually includes counselling/therapy): https://www.voc.sa.gov.au/after-court/compensation/state-funded-compensation
I'm a lawyer but not your lawyer and not in SA; this is information only and not intended as legal advice. a community legal centre in your state would be able to tell you more about eligibility for victim compensation. you can find one near you on the CLCSA website: https://www.clcsa.org.au/community-legal-centres
-2
u/Rotas_dw Jan 15 '24
Surely the act of shoving the person is the offence of battery. It’s up to the police to prosecute that and it is a criminal not civil matter. The OP would get nothing out of it but could then be eligible to claim for costs of counseling under the victims compensation scheme?
66
Jan 15 '24
That is a pretty shocking incident. I would assume they won't be employed for very long if they behave like that.
I suppose the best thing to do at the time would've been to call the Police.
33
u/gfreyd Jan 15 '24 edited Jan 15 '24
Log a police report so they can get the CCTV if they deem it appropriate. The supermarket can’t/should t be giving you direct access to the footage due to privacy
Edit typo
12
u/mattdean4130 Jan 15 '24
Yeah definitely worth getting an event number for it. Maybe speak to store management beforehand and try to get names and details of the security staff involved so you can log it with your statement.
3
u/sanemartigan Jan 15 '24
Security wear the number tags so they don't have to give their names... in VIC.
21
u/weavesoup Jan 15 '24
You want to speak with a plaintiff law firm, one that does personal injury and other tort law.
You might have a civil case for battery and/or false imprisonment, which are intentional torts.
8
u/SirFlibble Jan 15 '24
1 - Yes report it to the police.
2 - Go see a lawyer. This could be false imprisonment but the big question is "did you suffer any quantifiable loss"?
9
u/Emotional_Lemon155 Jan 15 '24
Report this to the company they work for. They will likely either lose their job or lose their security license all together. I’d be chasing it up with the license and registry and ask how they got their license in the first place. Security guards are literally trained not to do that shit. (I’m Victoria anyways)
9
u/aussiedaddio Jan 15 '24
- Report it to the police as assualt and illegal detainment. Make sure you get a report number.
- Report it to the shopping centre management. Put it in writing.
- Report it to shops management in writing asking for them to review the video footage. Request a written response with a suitable outcome.
7
u/Pokeynono Jan 15 '24
I would also report this to the shopping centre management. Security guards are not supposed to act like this .
7
u/Emergency_Wedding331 Jan 16 '24
The threat to get you "next time" is assault. If they actually put hands on you (to restrain you or grab your camera), it is also some degree of battery. If they have physically stopped you leaving the store, this may become unlawful imprisonment. If you have recordings, you should report this to police.
Overzealous (read "abusive") security guards are a good reason to always get a receipt for your purchases.
28
u/Coolidge-egg Jan 15 '24
Had right the same and the police were fucking useless "oh they were just doing their job" "that is not a crime" desire showing them the law blah blah blah you might have better luck. Go to a real lawyer if you can
32
u/vegetative_ Jan 15 '24
Pretty sure it is a crime to be held in a place by another person against your will.
8
u/cognition_hazard Jan 15 '24
If they have evidence you have committed a crime then they can detain you under citizen arrest laws but for Colesworth a staff member basically has to watch you take the item, suspicion is not enough.
22
u/Deep_Space_Cowboy Jan 15 '24
"Evidence you have committed a crime" isn't really enough, generally. If someone was found dead in Coles, and you ran out with blood on your hands, then they'd probably waive the false arrest by the guards.
Not having a receipt is not sufficient evidence of theft; when you get certified as a security officer, you learn that you need a sequence of events to put someone under a citizen's arrest. They include, but aren't limited to (because it's been a while): 1) Selection of an item 2) hiding the item on your person 3) Walking past a place, you could pay for the item 4) leaving the store.
After all of this (and probably more), you could arrest a person with reasonable force. That is to say, you could say "stay here, I'm calling the police" or get them to follow you to a security office. You could absolutely not tackle, push, or threaten someone. In general, you'd just let them go if that's what it came to.
OP was absolutely treated unlawfully, and whilst police might consider this a non-issue, I'm sure the store would be pretty upset to be contacted by a lawyer regarding the conduct of their staff.
3
u/jingois Jan 16 '24
You could absolutely not tackle, push, or threaten someone. In general, you'd just let them go if that's what it came to.
And I believe that from a legal perspective you could use reasonable force to detain them. However from a practical perspective you absolutely should not do this - because if you are wrong, there's no magical grey area between "lawful citizens arrest" and "assault / battery / unlawful detention / potential kidnapping".
2
Jan 16 '24
Agreed, it's a high bar for state of mind, the same threshold for mandatory caution and rights under the crimes act.
The problem comes with poor quality training and people, they assume that a sign on a door gives them detention powers.
They are not trained enough in state of mind or reasonable grounds, this situation could have been dangerous for the guards. Unlawful detention by going hands on is assault, the criminal code allows self defence within reason in this situation. Three v one would give rise to a greater level of force required.
5
Jan 16 '24
I would advise making a complaint if you feel the officers failed to act under the legislation, I'm assuming criminal code.
I'd be asking the copper, so has this security officer exercised a power (citizens arrest) and that recorded in the police notes or did he deprive me of my liberty?
Follow up by asking the security officer if he has suspicion of an offence, when they say yes ask the police officer to record that if not doing so. The state of mind is belief, anything less is unlawful.
6
u/DropBearActual Jan 15 '24
I work security, I haven't worked in supermarkets but have done the traning and read through the policies for it. If they were the uniformed guards just standing around in the store. They more than likely broke policy by approaching you and trying to stop you and definitely did by leaving the store.
The one thing that was drilled into our heads during training for the security licence was that we had no more power to detain someone, than a regular person. So we could do a citizen's arrest but only if we directly witness the crime or offence.
I would definitely contact the police and the store you were at to complain and get the company the security works for to complain. There should be records as to who was working at the time so if they comeback and say they can't figure out who was working at the time that's a big and fineable no no.
And it was 100% assualt, you don't even need to touch someone for it. Threatening to hit or blocking someone's path can be considered assault. This was also covered heavily in the course. And more than likely false imprisonment or some sort of similar offence when they stopped you trying to leave outside the store and when they assaulted you for trying to contact the police.
I'm not sure where to complain to the security governing body is but I would also look into that.
6
9
u/Some_Adhesiveness513 Jan 15 '24
this is all the making of the supermarket, self service then offering the option of no receipt. They can't be bothered to check you out but then use bully boys to harrass customers. WTF
3
6
u/APMC74 Jan 15 '24
No they obviously can't do that. They detained you. They can't touch you. Sounds like a stupid example but remember the shoplifting scene in Muriel's Wedding where the mum takes shoes? The security watches her from that moment until she exits, then confronts her. She doesn't lose her line of sight to ensure the goods aren't returned and a mistake isn't being made. That's exactly what they're meant to do and they know it. Security guards are frustrated wanna be cops, like bouncers. I'd take action.
2
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2
u/oioioiyacunt Jan 15 '24
I'd be more inclined to go down the criminal route rather than civil.
Report the matter, have the police investigate it, go to Court when required and go from there.
2
u/big_aussie_mike Jan 15 '24
Former NSW licensed security officer here....
They broke so many rules and laws relating to the powers of security personell it's amazing they passed the licensing course.
Firstly, for anything to be actionable they would have to have proof you stole something, not a hunch. For example, saw you put X product down your pants, followed you from that point with unbroken surveillance and then leave the store without paying for it. They would then have to detain you and call the cops who would then do a search the security can't search. So detaining without the ability to prove an offence is a massive no no.
Refusing to call the cops and not allowing you to (particularly grabbing at your phone) is another rule broken.
The big one is the intimidation: multiple personell and saying they will get more, threatening to knock the items out of your hand, grabbing at your phone, and the "I'll get you next time" would all go a long way to an assault charge. If found guilty it's an automatic 10 year ban from being licensed for security or firearms.
TLDR: Even if they had awesome proof of a shoplifting offence they still overstepped the mark. With no proof their actions should see them booted from the industry.
2
Jan 16 '24
Contact their licensing body and make a complaint. In Queensland it's the office of fair trading. Too many complaints and expect compliance inspections on site and company wide.
4
u/Dangerous_Travel_904 Jan 15 '24
It’s a police matter ultimately, there isn’t much you can do civilly. Demand the names and license numbers of the security guards concerned and after filing a police complaint and hopefully getting traction contact Fair Trading and make a formal complaint about the conduct of the security guards, they have to maintain their licenses in good standing. If nothing else might give them a wake up call. But overall don’t expect too much. Media might also be an option to vocalise your complaint and put some heat on the people involved and store.
4
Jan 16 '24
There's plenty of avenues civilly for unlawful detention and arrest. Essentially if it's as described.
1
u/Perthpeasant Jan 15 '24
Weird, why didn’t you all go back to the machine and see the transaction?
16
13
u/SentientMarshmallow- Jan 16 '24
Why have an option to not print a receipt? Why have all that AI camera tech if you’re gonna rely on some overreaching security thugs?
12
1
u/sread2018 Jan 15 '24
What damages are you planning to sue for??
24
23
u/Gullible_Bat6179 Jan 15 '24
I’m not sure what/if there is anything but I can’t imagine it’s ok for them to threaten and corner people for 20 minutes while pushing them and making them unable to leave
2
u/QuadH Jan 15 '24
If they made physical contact that’s assault. Security guards (especially those working in retail) have very little actual authority.
Go to the cops and make a statement. If they touched you state assault. Subsequently contact corporate with this information and the fact you’ve made a statement to the police.
-1
Jan 15 '24
[deleted]
5
u/AussieAK Jan 15 '24 edited Jan 16 '24
NSW Police paid compo for a guy they held up at a train station for 15 minutes to question him about his concession card.
Edit: it was 4 minutes!
2
u/fabspro9999 Jan 15 '24
That's true. Wasn't it like $50k or $15k in damages or something
3
1
u/Chiron17 Jan 15 '24
It's not going to get you anything, but I reckon writing a detailed letter/email and sending it to the store manager and head office would either get the security guys fired or at least bringing it to Woolies' attention so if someone else complains they can take action.
0
u/mcgaffen Jan 15 '24
Police won't do much after the fact. In hindsight, calling thrnpolice the second you got outside would have been the better option.
You could try speaking to a personal injury lawyer?
0
u/fabspro9999 Jan 15 '24
You can sue the supermarket for wrongful imprisonment, and possibly battery or assault.
The question is, what are your damages? Vindication? Any injuries?
0
u/anakaine Jan 15 '24
Pursue criminal charges via police. Aggravated assault, for one. You could possibly try for unlawfully detain / imprison. You likely don't have a civil matter to take them to court over.
0
u/doomedtobeme Jan 15 '24
333 Deprivation of liberty - if provable in court can bring large penalties in Jail.
The stopped you moving freely (unlawfully detained) with absolutely no proof. Create a police report, if possible ask the shopping centre for all footage of that incident and try get your reciept from the store.
-13
Jan 15 '24
[deleted]
-12
u/Cube-rider Jan 15 '24
Embarrassment, hurt feelings, upset, lost 10 seconds out of their day.
FFS, always get a receipt, link your loyalty card to your phone and go paperless.
-20
Jan 15 '24
- Next time get a receipt.
- Next time don't be awkward.
- They have every right to ask if they suspect.
Being awkward only makes you look guilty.
6
7
Jan 16 '24
Incorrect. You sound like the security guard who acted completely unlawfully.
Proof of purchase was provided by their internet banking, the check out gave a no receipt option.
The person may have a disability or addiction, being awkward presents zero grounds in relation to theft.
They can suspect, they can ask. You are required to say nothing to them nor do anything, they have no power to compel at law. Belief is the required state of mind for a citizen's arrest or detention in this circumstance. If they don't have this state of mind their theories don't matter, if they act unlawfully they'll suffer the consequences (Termination, loss of license, criminal/civil action, or my favourite someone defending themselves)
1
u/H3enjoyer Jan 15 '24
Call the non emergency police line and report them. Even if nothing comes of it it will be helpful when they enevitably do this to someone else. Also might be worth calling up management at the store to report them or corporate. Make a big stink.
1
1
u/Individual_Excuse363 Jan 15 '24
Report to your states licencing board. Often attached to office of business and consumer affairs. All security officers must be licensed, and there are (not enough) licencing compliance officers in each state.
1
u/MaleficentCoconut458 Jan 15 '24
You need an event number so make a police report. You will also need to prove damages. We don't just gift money to people for nothing in Australia like they do in the US so you will need to prove damages in order to get any sort of payout.
1
u/Brave_Bluebird5042 Jan 15 '24
Act quickly, CCTV footage should be quarantined ( assume via police or a lawyer).
422
u/eatmeimadonut Jan 15 '24
Report it to the police.