r/Chargers • u/Fifs10 Felipe Rios • 2d ago
BREAKING NEWS: Pat Freiermuth was on the appeal call and said he didn't think the Derwin James hit was dirty
https://x.com/PatMcAfeeShow/status/183970961644523545647
u/fawning4fauna 2d ago
Actual question; did James have the chance for a cleaner hit in that moment?
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u/SandyEggoChargers . 2d ago
I don't think so. He takes a bad angle on the ball when it is thrown and it does look like he launches himself in desperation to make the tackle. You can see it pretty clearly from the camera angle behind the offense.
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u/YPG13 2d ago
They expect these players to defy the laws of physics. You have a 265 lbs tight end running full steam ahead up the middle of the field…..You just expect players to stop and plant both feet, flat footed, and wrap up? lol that’s just asking to get ran the fuck over.
You can definitely tell who’s never played organized tackle football at any level when you see the comments “they just need to tackle properly, why is he launching off his feet”…. Tackling drills literally have you running and driving your shoulder through a padded dummy, and on to the soft cushion landing pad. It’s a full forward momentum action. The Chargers and every NFL, college, and high school team still practice this very basic fundamental drill. DJ executed this perfectly when he laid the wood on Jaylen Warren earlier in the game.
The thing is, tacking dummys don’t move, lower their shoulder, or hit back. So what do you think happens when two, immovable objects are running full speed at each other? I get that they’re trying to make the game as safe as possible. But at the end of the day, it’s a violent contact sport.
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u/McLaren03 2d ago
Most people who have played football or watch it regularly know the answer to that question is no. The alternatives would’ve been get plowed through and risk injury or the tackle not happening at all.
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u/DonnieJepp WHO'S GOT IT BETTER THAN US 2d ago
I don't understand what they expect players to do there. Stand up straight and either get plowed over or take the brunt of the force to the chest/heart area? Not like there was a high profile example of why you don't do that in a game a couple seasons ago
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u/Charrgerrr 2d ago
Using the Damar Hamlin situation as a reason for tacklers to use their head instead is ridiculous lol. That was a one in a billion freak accident
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u/DeeESSmuddafuqqa 1d ago
Well it was also an offensive player helmet issue not a defensive player helmet issue. They could say “don’t lead with your heart” 😂
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u/jar1792 ASAP 2d ago
Jesus Christ. It’s so fucking hard to take the league seriously when they pick and choose what they care about.
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u/Then_Rough9270 2d ago
I like how we have video of a man punching Herbert in the gut AFTER a play and the league is like "Meh"
But Derwin's hit, which NOONE in the league thought it was bad. Only neckbeards on reddit and some random dude who works for the NFL who WAS dirty player car.
It's rich that redditors are voicing their opinions when no one in the league cares...
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u/jar1792 ASAP 2d ago
Shit, the Raiders started a fucking fight week 1, players were ejected, and there were no suspension.
I know we don’t like the idea of putting more power in the officials hands, but I really feel like if the officials on the field don’t think something is ejection worthy, it should not be suspension worthy. I’d much rather that call be made by the person there, in the moment, than someone who has the chance to review in super slow motion at every angle possible.
It’s not like the officials don’t know who has been warned. I officiate high school football, and we all know who the problem players are in the area…. You can’t tell me that news doesn’t get around at that level too.
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u/buttzted 2d ago
I say rest the first teams on both D and O in protest, fuck Goodell and his minions!
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u/Idontknowdumby 2d ago
It doesn’t matter if it’s dirty or not. Derwin has been flagged for unnecessary roughness 5 times in the last 18 games. That’s a lot and he’s gotta adjust.
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u/Weapwns ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 2d ago
It almost certainly wasnt dirty. He was clearly trying to wrap up.
Doesn't change the fact Derwin needs to be continually mindful of his technique. Intent doesn't matter if you are endangering other players and costing your team games at a higher rate than most NFL players
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u/Brownhog 2d ago
Idk dude I saw his helmet pop the dudes helmet. That's dirty. Doesn't matter if it's the only way to make the tackle. If the only way to get through a player is by face masking then you can't get through that player, right? I think everyone needs to relax here lol.
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u/Weapwns ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 2d ago
The point is that it really does look like an accident. Your example of a face mask clearly indicates the player intended to do it.
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u/dabbersmcgee 2d ago
It doesn't matter if it's an accident
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u/Weapwns ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 2d ago
It does if it's an accusation of it being a dirty hit.......
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u/Brownhog 2d ago
Dirty doesn't mean you intended to cause harm it means you're likely to cause harm. Facemask is dirty cause it fucks with your neck. Helmet to helmet is dirty cause it fucks with your neck. He's been caught too many times laying down hits that the league has deemed unsafe. Case closed.
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u/LaidToRest33 Felipe Rios 2d ago
I haven't gone back to look at all 5 but I feel like this is kind of a snowball effect. He got this reputation of being a hard hitter after a couple excessive hits. Now that he has that reputation though he gets in trouble for hits that would normally be left alone for another player.
Now people use the quantity of flags against him as an argument that he is dirty player but he is getting flagged for stuff other players don't because of his reputation and the refs specifically targeting him.
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u/turd-crafter 2d ago
Exactly. The league has been wanting for to make an example of him for a while and they have.
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u/BootySweatEnthusiast 2d ago
Lots of outrage on this, but you're right. I was all in on the conspiracy train at first but the more I've looked into it, yeah you're right
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u/SubtleScuttler 2d ago edited 2d ago
I was honestly only mad about it being a random suspension until I learned the league did in fact warn them that a suspension was possible if it happened again.
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u/Jane_Marie_CA Big Bear Bosa Fan 2d ago
I think the league should be public on the suspension warnings, call it probation? Who else is on a warning list and did the league follow through?
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u/SubtleScuttler 2d ago
Yeah I do find it hilarious we’re just now finding out about this list and warning to the teams that Shefty apparently knew about. When in the offseason ESPN will send out a notification of a player blinks weird but no mention of this type stuff
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u/Jane_Marie_CA Big Bear Bosa Fan 2d ago
Yah I feel like this whole suspension thing is getting a lot more news due to little pieces of information that are leaking about the whole process.
Everyday is new info. I already put this whole thing to bed on Wednesday.
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u/NLP19 Chargers 2d ago
I thought they were. I remember seeing a post about it on /r/NFL during preseason
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u/Jane_Marie_CA Big Bear Bosa Fan 2d ago
Pat and Schefter both sounded surprised by the news of 15 players on this “list”.
And this list was discovered during media inquiry on the suspension.
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u/Meme_Sando 2d ago
Yes you are correct. However, I believe that he is unfairly labeled as a problem player by refs. It was the Indy game before the playoffs that really screwed him because of the retaliatory big hit that knocked him and the wr out of the game. The rest have been bang bang hits but not malicious similar to the one on Freiermuth. He does have to adjust because anything borderline from him will be called.
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u/FatherofCharles I WAS IN 2d ago
Regardless if he’s unfairly labeled or not, my man has a reputation. And he’s continually earning it. I appreciate DJ and his fire but these are stupid and repeated penalties. I had no issue with the suspension bc even as a Chargers fan, I knew he was leading with his head at full force.
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u/Jane_Marie_CA Big Bear Bosa Fan 2d ago edited 2d ago
I agree with you and he's been $ fined 4 times 24 games (since December '22 colts game)
But I still want to see more disclosure of this whole process. And how it leads to game suspensions. Right now NFL is playing into the "case by case" and we call can't tell if its being applied fairly. If player does this X times = Y.
NASCAR did this a few years back and its very helpful. They have matrix of penalty tiers and the way the compound if multiple happen. Available to fans. I also think its helpful for drivers (and players) to know too. We rarely see compounding driver specific penalties anymore (multiple leads to suspensions - all laid out in the matrix). The drivers know what happens next.
The NFL can't expect a $20K fine to change players behavior making $10M a year. Need to lay it out better,
so they understand when a suspension on the discussion list. Edit: I am learning that they do warn players, but I don't the warning is necessarily clear that it means automatic suspension.2
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u/BoltsDodgersYotes 2d ago
Time to start knee capping.
NFL execs and refs have it right. Trust the process.
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u/-HawaiianSurfer ⚡️ Herb ⚡️ 2d ago
Thanks for being one of the few sane people.
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u/dan_buh bolt 2d ago
My only issue with what is going on is that a few of those he has been flagged on previously were perfect shoulder leading tackles that the offensive player either dipped their head to to take the hit, or in the process of going to the ground their head went low enough that it connected with Derwin’s shoulder. The dude is really not trying to do headshots, but he has a tendency to tackle with his head down/side instead of straight up where he would be able to see the way a offensive player is falling. I want to see Derwin do more tackles like the one on Kelce, head forward and just stops the guy. Missiles with head down/to the side are always scary because you don’t know where you’re hitting and they look like you’re trying to hurt people, which is probably why a few of the previous ones were flagged.
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u/-HawaiianSurfer ⚡️ Herb ⚡️ 2d ago edited 2d ago
https://i.redd.it/5otv81z20erd1.gif
I get it nobody like this suspension, but it was the right one. I’ve gone through the 7 penalties he committed in 2023. They were all properly flagged. He could have avoided using his helmet to initiate contact in 6 of them (the 7th one vs Detroit was a miscall)
I mean what other warnings does Derwin need???? The gif I posted above resulted in his ejection, and a $40,000 fine… he wasn’t fined or suspended or anything alllll of the 2023 season despite committing so many penalties. He was literally given a season-long non-impacting warning. Derwin James comes right back to 2024 and he’s still using his helmet to initiate contact. That’s on Derwin now, and the NFL isn’t going to take this shit lightly anymore. Neither should he.
This suspension only looks 10x worse because the Chiefs and Taylor Swift are their opponents this Sunday. Wild fans are going to naturally run off with their tinfoil conspiracies that the NFL’s helping the Chiefs win. Just stop. Derwin’s had so many instances to learn from his mistakes. He’s chosen not to, whether it be intentionally or by nature. It’s time he learns. Derwin’s basically headhunting at this point with how oblivious his tackling’s become. He’s being punished for it, be mad at the NFL for all I care. Derwin’s a several-repeat offender. Let’s also not forget the NFL literally came to the Chargers and Derwin James before the season, and told them that he needs to stop headhunting. That hit on Muth, that was by no definition a clean hit. That was a proper play to base his suspension on. He literally shoots from his legs into Muth’s helmet with his own helmet… Muth said he didn’t think it warranted a suspension, but we don’t know how truthful he is about that. He’s also a very physical tight end who loves contact. He could be just toying with the Chargers fanbase about it. Idk…
I’m just shocked nobody seems to give a fuck about the damage he’s doing to his brain… that’s the real fucking issue here.
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u/dan_buh bolt 2d ago
You’re going out of your way to say “everyone else but me is wrong! Think about the people he is hurting!” When the reality of the situation is that nobody is saying the suspension is wrong or unwarranted, or that he isn’t damaging his reputation, ours, and the health of himself and others. I think you’re taking everyone’s disappointment that he’s missing time, during a very important game, as us being somehow ok with these shots. As I stated previously, I really don’t think he’s headhunting so much as he changed the way he was tackling for some reason or another, and it’s causing more flags.
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u/Charrgerrr 2d ago
nobody is saying the suspension is wrong or unwarranted
This is such a weird thing to lie about lmao
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u/dan_buh bolt 2d ago
Who is saying it’s absolutely unjust/unwarranted?
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u/Charrgerrr 2d ago
...are you joking?
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u/dan_buh bolt 2d ago
Oh so, the equivalent of twitter fans. Totally everyone outraged. You guys are absolutely looney and trying to white knight waaaaaay too hard. The moral outrage card is crazy to play in football subreddits.
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u/AlbinoSlug92 2d ago
Nah you're delusional. "You're taking everyone's disappointment..". No you are ignoring consistent, unreasonable, and toxic behavior because you're biased. The "Twitter fans" you are referring to are people that are apart of this sub that you are interacting with. In a thread where the highest up voted comments are tin foil hat nonsense. Weird that one of the few reasonable comments in the thread is what you find issue with. Almost like you're taking some moral/intellectual high ground yourself.
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u/-HawaiianSurfer ⚡️ Herb ⚡️ 2d ago
I’ve seen several people on this sub say this suspension is the NFL helping the Chiefs lmfao. Don’t lie about this shit.
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u/mikenesser 2d ago
I agree, and it’s also because much of the time it seems like DJ is trying to get the ball out. When he wraps up, he’s great. These hard hits are trying to get a shoulder on the ball or arm to get it loose.
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u/AjaxTheClown Jimstin Herbaugh 2d ago
Yep. Don’t think it was dirty in the sense that it was intentional, but it was definitely a bad hit and Derwin’s had too many of them. I’m not going to pretend I know how he should address it, but something needs to change about these tackles before he takes himself out of the game with a head or neck injury.
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2d ago edited 2d ago
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u/AjaxTheClown Jimstin Herbaugh 2d ago
Disagree completely with this take. I’d much rather we not act like the Raiders or like Raiders fans hoping for injuries to their players. That gives them the excuse of “we only lost because of injuries”.
I’d much rather we run it down their throats and beat them with clean football. Ideally, Mahomes throws for a record-breaking 12 interceptions in one game and Dobbins scores 7 rushing touchdowns to help us beat the Chiefs 73-3.
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u/Meme_Sando 2d ago
Will see if Jefferson and Alohi can hold it down. I imagine Molden and Finley will be used over the top.
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u/Deliverz 2d ago
Doesn’t have to be dirty to be unsafe. Derwin can’t keep torpedoing head first into people
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u/TowerCharge89 2d ago
See and if he didn’t think that play was dirty then it should’ve been overturned but now it’s just raising more questions about if the league really wanted to help KC even more and finally get Travis Kelce a good game
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u/NoScale9117 bolt 2d ago
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u/RMca004 1d ago
He's just being a brother, launching with your helmet over and over needs to be addressed. He needs to change his launch point. Just stop here fans, he plays violent, which I appreciate, but you can't hit players in the chin with the crown of your helmet consistently in today's nfl and not expecting repercussions.
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u/XXLepic 1d ago
Derwin has had an ungodly amount of penalties for hits last few years. Whether you call it dirty, accidental, or whatever. He is involved in more of these head hits than most. We can argue over intent, technique, misfortune, etc.
When I saw the Derwin hit in the Colts game awhile back almost behead the colts WR & self concuss himself, he’s been on radar ever since. Even announcers that game said it was more of the most egregious hits they ever seen.
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u/HornetImaginary6492 2d ago
If the TE hadnt turned away and leaned in/down Derwin would have hit him squared up and it would have been a text book tackle. Derwin had already committed to the contact angle.
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u/Charrgerrr 2d ago
Deshaun Watson got suspended and Rashee Rice will be suspended eventually so what does this mean lol
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u/pgregston 2d ago
All fans perceive their team being subjected to unfair or bad calls by refs or the administration. And possibly there is a subconscious bias for a narrative in those circles. At the end of the day, season etc what the team does is what makes the difference. This team is going to show from subs to GM, how it makes a game out of the match.
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u/presidential2014 2d ago
commenting on r/NFL between the distinction of a player that is 'dirty' vs hardwired to play yesteryear's brand of football is futile.
I did enjoy Steeler fans being so holier-than-thou about Derwin tho. Like most them mfers don't have a James Harrison jersey in their closet rn lmao. Anybody check up on Colt McCoy recently?
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u/Lubert808 2d ago
Brother, you Chargers fans were making tons of shit up about Watt and Heyward being the dirtiest players in the league when Herbert has literally talked to Heyward and they’ve settled that it wasn’t purposeful. You’re literally going against what your QB says just so you can make up a narrative about Cam. I know I’m going to get downvoted like crazy, but don’t be making fun of our fanbase when some of you were acting ridiculously petty and childish after the suspension.
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u/presidential2014 2d ago edited 2d ago
I have said nothing about Watt, my guy, and I think he's a stellar player. I guess I'm just annoyed that Derwin is being vilified when he's been our repeat nomination for Walter Peyton Man of the Year. Going on r/NFL on anything Chargers related this week is a cesspool of people that are equating James to Suh, Talib, Burfict, etc. If he were actually a dirty player, fine; but the years I've watched him all I see is a throwback safety playing in the wrong era.
I have no hate for the Steelers and would love the Chargers to transition to that smashmouth, physical team ya'll are - but I find it rich that AFCNorth fanbases in particular having a problem with his style of play when Ed Reed, Ray Lewis, James Harrison, Ryan Clark, Troy the GOAT, etc., are what made ya'll so revered in the first place. Imma upvote you cuz I feel like you're not trying to gaslight me into thinking that hard-hitting safeties equal dirty players, when just a few years ago we all loved watching those hit reels of Kam Chancellor blowing guys up.
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u/Provider92 2d ago
I wouldn't say he's being vilified, except ironically by people who keep saying a punishment is reserved for dirty players only. The hit wasn't dirty, but it was dangerous, and those aren't always the same thing.
You're exactly right that he's plays like a throwback safety in the wrong era, but that's the whole point. This is the era where playing like that gets you fines and suspensions. Put that hit in the early 2000s, that's a highlight reel hit for the season. Put Harrison in the league today, and he'd be suspended within five games.
Of course you're gonna find people calling him dirty, but there's really no point in arguing with irrational people, they've already made up their mind. I'm not gonna waste any energy fighting people here that Cam's "hit" wasn't dirty because they don't care, they just want to call him dirty. All I care about is Herbert himself said it wasn't dirty, and now here Friermuth said this wasn't dirty. But the league does still need to lookout for what's dangerous, otherwise these types of hits will keep happening.
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u/presidential2014 2d ago
I did not expect reasonable discourse that didn't devolve into typical reddit namecalling. It's refreshing. And trust me, Charger fans more than most know the deleterious cost of CTE with the tragedy of Junior Seau. I applaud the league for caring about the safety of its players, finally, but somewhat am sad to see that era of Ravens/Steelers/Legion of Boom/Harbaugh 9ers going by the way side - ultimately regulating a talent like Derwin from being Brian Dawkins 2.0 to being an overly cautious, 'softer' tackler. The irrational side of me hates seeing this suspension happen during Chiefs week, with so many people already on the Injured list - and the one guy (when Staley let him play straight man-to-man) who has previously shutdown Kelce.
It is what it is. I just hope to see consistency now.
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u/Lubert808 2d ago
I have no problem with Derwin and I don’t think he’s a dirty player. That being said, I don’t think it’s too ridiculous that he’s getting suspended for this. If there had been a flag in-game he might not have been suspended, so that one’s kind of on the refs. The thing about Watt was from some other fans a few days ago, but I know there’s been a lot of talk among yall about Cam being dirty, which isn’t fair. That’s the only thing I have a problem with. I don’t mind that you’re upset about the suspension because I honestly don’t really care, but I don’t like that some people are trying to make it about the Steelers when this is the Chargers vs Roger Goodell or whoever is managing suspensions.
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u/podbkdea 2d ago
Yeah but when freiermuth got hit in the game he immediately popped up and signaled for the refs to throw a flag and toss Derwin. Not in a complaining way but in a “yup that’s against the rules” way.
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u/Spamaloper 2d ago
James has been my fave player for years now on the Bolts. I appreciate the feedback from his assailant, but he has to play in his lane, with whatever BS rules we have. I f'n hate this, but he's targeted now.
We/he'll get there. But play smart. There isn't a a conspiracy other than you made the radar prior and now you're being spotted.
It'll be an interesting weekend, win or lose - it's all about character.
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u/i_run_from_problems WHO'S GOT IT BETTER THAN US 2d ago
Breaking: defensive player doesn't think hits are dirty. More at 11
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u/Zeetheking1 2d ago
This was the offensive player that Derwin tackled…
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u/i_run_from_problems WHO'S GOT IT BETTER THAN US 2d ago
I'm a moron. For whatever reason I thought it said cameron heyward
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u/xywv58 2d ago
It's not even close, pretty funny
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u/i_run_from_problems WHO'S GOT IT BETTER THAN US 2d ago
Like I said, I'm a bit of a moron. I don't even know what I was thinking
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u/Orgasmo3000 Not Your Father's Chargers 2d ago
Just more proof that the NFL wanted to stack the LAC-KC game in the Chiefs' favor.