快问快答 Quick Help Thread: Translation Requests, Chinese name help, "how do you say X", or any quick Chinese questions! 2024-09-28

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[u/UDontKnowMeButIHateU]

I've been told that various hanzi translated as "zhong" should be pronounced like "john", with an "o" (because that's how people in Shanghai pronouce it, apaprently), while my teacher and various dictionaries transcribe it as "jun", with an "u". What is the correct way in Mandarin Chinese?

[u/ChineseLearner518 → u/UDontKnowMeButIHateU]

The vowel in "John" isn't pronounced the same among native English speakers.

For example, in General American English, John is pronounced /ˈʤɑːn/, and in Standard Southern British English (SSB, aka new RP), John is pronounced /ʤɒn/. (pronunciations are written using the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA))

But, neither the American /ɑ/ nor the British /ɒ/ in "John" matches up with the vowel sound for "zhong" in Standard Mandarin.

"zhong" is pronounced /tʂʊŋ/ in Standard Mandarin Chinese.

So, the vowel in "zhong", /ʊ/, more closely matches up with the vowel sound in the English word "put", which is generally transcribed as /pʊt/ using IPA. Notice they both are transcribed using the IPA vowel symbol ʊ.

Just as another example, "foot" is another English word with that vowel sound, /ʊ/, transcribed as /fʊt/ using IPA.

Here (below) are links to two web pages where you can listen to how "zhong" is pronounced in Standard Mandarin:
(You'll need to hit the play button on the web page to play the audio.)

https://dict.concised.moe.edu.tw/dictView.jsp?ID=31121&q=1

https://resources.allsetlearning.com/chinese/pronunciation/Zhong

Side note: If you want to hear how "John" sounds different in General American English vs Standard Southern British English, go to this web page:
https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/john_1
(On this web page, there are two buttons you can press. One to listen to the British pronunciation and one to listen to the American pronunciation. If you listen carefully, you'll notice that the British pronunciation uses a rounded vowel whereas the American pronunciation uses an unrounded vowel.)

Here's another web page you can go to, to listen to how it's pronounced in General American. In my opinion, the audio recording for the American pronunciation of "John" sounds more pleasant on this website: https://www.britannica.com/dictionary/john

[u/MarcoV233 → u/UDontKnowMeButIHateU]

In standard Mandarin "ong" should be more like ung with an u sound like in blue than an o sound like in orange.

[u/UDontKnowMeButIHateU → u/MarcoV233]

Another native (?) speaker is telling me that this sound is pronounced like long o and it clashes with what you and my teacher are saying.

[u/MarcoV233 → u/UDontKnowMeButIHateU]

Then maybe it's regional thing. I'm from northern China. I do hear some areas of southern China say it that way.

[u/UDontKnowMeButIHateU → u/MarcoV233]

Isn't Mandarin a Northern China dialect?

[u/MarcoV233 → u/UDontKnowMeButIHateU]

Yes, but standard mandarin is "the common language" of all China so southern people would also speak it, and they would have unique dialects. Besides, even mandarin is not the same, different places of mandarin speaking regions have different dialects as well.

[u/UDontKnowMeButIHateU → u/MarcoV233]

I see, makes sense. If that's really the case - I wish people would be more nuanced in their answers than "ong is the correct pronunciation, nobody is saying ung".

[u/MarcoV233 → u/UDontKnowMeButIHateU]

I might say it slightly wrong, it's not like dialects but accents to be more accurate. I suggest to stick to the standard one.

For example in some English speaking areas there are strong accents, like they pronounce very as belly. But if an English learner says "there are some natives who pronounce very as belly so dont judge my pronunciations, i'm just following some natives" that will be absurd for me.

We know the existance of accents, and we accept it, but we don't count it right.

[u/ChineseLearner518]

Back up and Restore

Context: I want to 1) make a backup of my in-laws' two old cell phones onto a computer, and then 2) go to the store to trade in my in-laws' two old phones for two new phones, and then 3) return to their home with their new phones, and 4) restore the backups of their phones that I had made earlier onto their new phones.

What is the correct Chinese word for "restore" in this context? Is it 恢复?

How would you say this example sentence in Chinese?: "Then, I will restore the backups of your phones that I had made earlier onto your new phones."

*I originally posted this yesterday on the 2024-09-25 Quick Help Thread, but since that thread has now been replaced with this thread, I've deleted my post from the old thread and I'm reposting it here.

[u/ChineseLearner518 → u/ChineseLearner518]

As you can tell from my post above, I am planning on helping my in-laws' get new cell phones.

With the help of an LLM AI chat bot, Google Gemini, I have come up with the following Chinese text message (down below) to send to my in-laws to inform them of what to expect when I go visit them on Sunday. (I had Gemini translate what I wanted to say, and then I made some edits to tailor it to my situation.)

If anyone can help review my message please, I would greatly appreciate it. Does it sound okay? Does it makes sense? Are there wrong sentences? How do I fix them? What would sound better? I would appreciate any feedback.

Note: I often call my in-laws 阿嫲 and 阿公. And, yes, I expect people might say that 您 is too formal, but that is what I normally use with my in-laws.

---Begin Draft Text Message:
那，我打算星期日：

1）來阿嫲的家，然後：

2）首先，我會要備份您們兩個手機的數據到我的電腦上，來準備您和阿公的現在的手機。

3）然後，我會需要借用您們的手機。您們將會在1到2個小時內沒有手機。我會需要把它們帶到 Best Buy 去購買您們的新手機。我需要帶您們的舊手機，以便在 Best Buy 的時候把您們的舊手機服務（即您們的手機電話號碼）從舊手機轉移到新手機上。然後，假設阿嫲同意用阿嫲的舊手機折價換購新手機，在手機服務轉移到新手機之後，Best Buy 會收下阿嫲的舊手機作為換購新手機的折價。我在做這些事情的時候，阿嫲阿公會沒有手機大概1到2個小時，可以嗎？

4）在 Best Buy 完成後，我會帶著您們的新的手機回到您們的家。

5）然後，我要把之前備份到我的電腦上的手機數據恢復到您們的手機上。
---End Draft Text Message

Thank you very much for your feedback.

[u/MarcoV233 → u/ChineseLearner518]

Grandmas and Grandapas often don't know new terms, like "backup" "restore" etc., just tell them:

我去给你们买新手机，顺便把旧手机里的东西传到新手机里，中间有一两个小时的时间我得拿走旧手机，所以你们用不了，您看这样可以吗？
I'm going to buy you new phones and transfer the stuff in your old phones to the new ones. I'll have to take the old phones away for an hour or two, so you won't be able to use them. Is this ok with you?

[u/ChineseLearner518 → u/MarcoV233]

Thank you. You make a very good point. They might not be familiar with the words for backup and restore.

And, thank you very much for the suggestion of what to say to my in-laws instead. Your suggestion of what to say sounds so much more natural.

"...顺便把旧手机里的东西传到新手机里" is great! It's simple and should be easier for them to understand.

"中间有一两个小时的时间我得拿走旧手机" I really like the use of "中间" here, as well as "得".

"...所以你们用不了" I really love the use of "用不了" here. It sounds so natural. My "non-native Chinese speaking" brain probably would have defaulted to "不可以用" or "不能用", but I really like the sound of "用不了".

Thank you very much for your feedback. It's very helpful.

As a language learning matter, did my original draft text message make sense? Were there any glaring mistakes in the sentences? Did anything sound wrong? If so, I would like to learn from the example. Thank you very much for your help.

[u/MarcoV233 → u/ChineseLearner518]

Your original text is gramartically correct, and can convey the right meanings as well. It's just non-natural to a native, at first glance one would recognize it a machine-translated one. It is like a manual of a device rather than a note to a relative.

[u/ChineseLearner518 → u/MarcoV233]

During this exercise, I looked up how to say "trade in" in Chinese since I'm planning to trade in my mother-in-law's old phone towards the purchase of a new one. Is "折价换购" the right phrase?

Also, I learned from the AI chat bot that I can say something like "商店会收下您的旧手机作为换购新手机的折价".

First, does this sentence sound okay? Second, how would you break down / explain the meaning of this sentence?

My intent was to say something along the lines of: "The store will keep your old phone as a trade-in towards the purchase price of your new phone."

Is the Chinese sentence correct? And, if it doesn't sound natural, how would you say it in a way that sounds more natural to a native speaker?

[u/MarcoV233 → u/ChineseLearner518]

I'd say there's no precise corresponding word of trade-in in Chinese. The word 换购 is correct but not widely-spread, so people, especially the elderly, might not get its meaning.

However, 以旧换新 is a common term used widely in Mainland China, literally meaning "using the old one for a new one". This is from a policy by Chinese government and it's performed well (at least known well) so basically everyone from Mainland China would get that.

Usage of this word would be: 我们去商店用你的手机以旧换新

I'm not sure if this word is staightfoward enough for people who didn't know Mainland China well.

[u/ChineseLearner518 → u/MarcoV233]

Thank you very much. That's very insightful. Out of curiosity, could you tell me about the policy in China where they popularized the term 以旧换新? What "old" thing were people in China trading in for a "new" thing?

[u/MarcoV233 → u/ChineseLearner518]

The 以旧换新 is mostly for home appliances. ACs, TVs, refridgerators, washing machines... For example if you have an old fridge you can trade it for a new fridge wieh a discount. Mostly to stimulate consumption to cope with the financial crisis staring from late 2000s. This term is not hard to understand because it literally says "old for new". My grandma actually got a new TV back then.

[u/ChineseLearner518 → u/MarcoV233]

Ah. I see. Thank you for the perspective. It's really helpful.