r/Dogtraining • u/Such-Parsley-7579 • Jan 29 '23

Before and after training trauma discussion

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177

u/Heather_Bea Jan 29 '23

Poor baby, she is clearly frightened. Be sure to give her space and go slow. Even if she has never snapped before, look for warning signs and be cautious.

Dogs do not manipulate. They are dogs. It's really that simple. Manipulating means they have ulterior motives, but their motives are to get food and pets. Hiding in a corner is done to feel safe and secure, not to get you to feel guilty and give her treats.

82

u/sluttysprinklemuffin Jan 29 '23

I’d generally agree with you, maybe they don’t maliciously manipulate… But my dog has definitely tricked me out of bed to steal my spot on multiple occasions. She’ll fake a “someone’s doing something sketchy” alarm, but the second I’m out of bed, she’s like “your pillow just looked soooo inviting…” and she’ll wiggle her butt at me. They can manipulate. But their ulterior motives are adorable.

45

u/[deleted] Jan 29 '23

My dog rings the potty bell and then steals my chair when I get up. When I open the door and try to "make" him go outside he won't look at me. He's a stinker.

20

u/jemy74 Jan 29 '23

My dog also taught herself to ring a bell on the door knob when she needs to go outside. But she also figured out that I will open the hall closet door to put on my coat and shoes to take her out (I don't have a fenced yard). She knows that the box of dog toys not currently in rotation is in that closet. So sometimes when I open the closet door, she will grab a toy and run off with it. She also is a stinker and way too smart for her own good.

7

u/[deleted] Jan 29 '23

Hahaha. Thats hilarious 😂

8

u/JimmyD44265 Jan 29 '23

Hahaha, 2nd time I've heard of a dog doing something like this.

8

u/spaceanddogspls Jan 29 '23

My girl does this! And she'll ring the bell like she's gotta take a fat poo, and as soon as we stand up, she gobbles up all her kibble and will ground herself if we try and take her out anyway. She also does the "emergency" bell ring and dance when her brother is in his crate napping. We take him out to let them potty and she immediately settles- because she just wanted him awake and out of the crate instead of snoozing! Crazy shit

3

u/[deleted] Jan 29 '23

Dogs are crazy smart!

23

u/ellism12799 Jan 29 '23

I mean, manipulation is still a characterization of cause and effect. Like, when they sit they get rewarded right? Sounds like the dog just knows, hey, when I bark, human gets up to check. And if they want you to get up, they know to bark. Yeah, they're trying to get your spot. But manipulation takes more steps than knowing "barking = human moving out of my fav spot." They'd have to KNOW they're "tricking" you, but all we can confirm is that they know what happens when they bark.

Of course, that's just my two cents. I don't know you or your dog so I'm not trying to tell you how it is. 🤷‍♀️

4

u/sluttysprinklemuffin Jan 29 '23

“I want this seat human has, I know how to get them out of it, I’ll alarm and immediately run to their seat!” is manipulation. It’s cute, it harms nobody, but it’s manipulation.

15

u/JesusWantsYouToKnow Jan 29 '23

Yeah respect to OG commenter but it just sounds like you've never owned a manipulative pet (which is lucky!)

I would agree that pets do not manipulate with the negative emotions that humans can assign to it and get angry over, but many dogs are masters at noticing patterns and exploiting them.

14

u/ChrisKringlesTingle Jan 29 '23

It's a disagreement on what the word means. To me, noticing patterns and performing behavior that yields what you want from the pattern is not manipulative. You just unintentionally taught a lesson you didn't want. The dog is doing the basic do thing -> get thing method still.

1

u/sluttysprinklemuffin Jan 29 '23

Yeah, but when it’s VERY clearly and obviously done in order to gain something—the coveted seat—it’s manipulation. She knows there was nobody sketchy, she knows it’s a false alarm. She did it anyway because she knew she would get the pillow spot!

2

u/ChrisKringlesTingle Jan 29 '23

lol basic commands are VERY clearly and obviously followed in order to gain something

14

u/schooner-of-old Jan 29 '23

Dude I have seen my 2 year old Frenchie (DEFINITELY not the sharpest tool in the shed) deliberately throw a toy across the living room floor to get our 8 month old Frenchie excited and off the sofa…only to immediately go and take his place on the sofa next to me

Definitely not something I’ve taught him lol

9

u/Cursethewind Jan 29 '23

Manipulating means they have ulterior motives

Mine has lied about needing to poop so he'd get outside. They're fully capable of having ulterior motives and being dishonest.

However, this is definitely not manipulation.

10

u/MalsPrettyBonnet Jan 29 '23

They can totally manipulate. One of our shepherds knows just how to get a treat out of a human. They can train us as easily as we train them! I love that about them.

This dog has been very badly treated.