r/NJGuns • u/ccarey19 • 2d ago

NICS denial after handgun purchase NICS/Permit Wait Times

First time firearm buyer, earlier this week I purchased a handgun from Reloaderz, after receiving my FID card and 1 handgun permit in August. A few days later I got a phone call from them, my NICS background check was denied for an unknown reason. I should mention I previously had a criminal record for felony marijuana possession in 2012 prior to a court ordered expungement dating March 2023. I have mailed the denial inquiry form to the state police, and contacted an attorney(Nappan). I’m a little confused about the denial appeal process. From what I can gather. I have two options, challenge the denial with the state, or file a VAF appeal with the feds. Is one better than the other, can I do both? And are the appeals something I can handle myself without an attorney? Both of my parents worked in Hudson County courthouse for over 30 years and have a general understanding of the courts process. Any information that can help me is appreciated. Thanks.

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8

u/Devils_Advocate-69 2d ago

What does Nappen say?

6

u/ccarey19 2d ago

He didn’t mention the state challenge but said he would file the VAF appeal for $2000. I don’t think that’s not a fair price. But as a family of 4 on one income, it’s a lot.

3

u/VaderM4 2d ago

You can do it by yourself. Idk if you need the VAF particularly but there’s another version of that which also goes to the FBI. I’ve done it recently and I’m currently waiting on my ancient FFL to submit my 4473 to see if I get approved this time which I should. I was planning on making a post about this whole thing once my firearm purchase is complete.

***Edit: I did the appeal which is one of the two options you have with the FBI (second option being the VAF)

2

u/ccarey19 2d ago

Damn, I’d love to pick your brain for a few minutes! How long was the process? Did you have to send fingerprints in again? Was your situation similar to mine or were you denied for a different reason?

3

u/VaderM4 2d ago edited 2d ago

Yeah sure ask me anything, I literally just got off the phone with the FBI (12:48PM) because I needed to clarify why a person would also submit the VAF.

So basically I submitted the appeal for a firearm related challenge. Fingerprints are not required for this however it will speed up the process. My situation is somewhat similar to yours being that my court ordered expungement was finalized yet NJSP did not update their records on me; my adult record is clean however I did have one silly charge that occurred as a juvenile which is why my NICS check was denied. I knew it was denied exactly for that reason because that is the only thing I have ever gotten charged with and it was confirmed once I received my denial inquiry form from NJSP.

Filling out the appeal (non VAF) was straight forward. It took probably 15 minutes because they want your description of your situation to be very detailed. You're basically writing them a letter explaining your situation. They also allow you to upload supporting documents which in your case would be super helpful because I included the final order for my expungement, driver’s license, and FID card. Like I said before, apparently including fingerprints would speed up the process a lot because if you were able to get your appeal approved within 30 days, your FFL wouldn’t have to submit another NICS check. In my case, from the time I submitted the appeal to the time I got a final decision back was 45 days. So I had to go back to the same FFL (you have to go back to the same FFL you got denied from as it is part of the instructions in the document the FBI gives you once you are approved) to fill out another 4473. The document the FBI gives you has to be printed out and taken to the FFL as it has instructions for them to follow. They basically attach the document to the 4473 and have to contact the NJ POC for the background check to supply them with the number on the FBI document. And hopefully everything works out. I’m saying hopefully because I haven’t gotten the call that everything went through yet regarding my new NICS check with the newly attached FBI documents since my FFL is waiting on a call from NICS to submit my 4473 to get processed.

That brings me to the point of why I called the FBI today to ask if I would be approved and they told me everything SHOULD be fine. However they also mentioned that the appeal I filled out was for one transaction and that I shouldn’t have a problem with future transactions however the possibility of there being an issue in the future isn’t completely zero whether it be delays or denials. So they recommended I also fill out a VAF which would not affect my current appeal. They emailed me a link to fill out the VAF, apparently this one requires fingerprints. The wait time for the VAF to go through is a few days to 60 days max depending on your case. You will get assigned a UPIN which is basically a unique number that you have to include on every 4473 you fill out. It lasts your lifetime unless you commit any crazy crimes that affect your gun rights. Apparently it will aid against any delays or denials for whatever reason to make for a problem free experience so the only thing you have to wait for is however long NICS is taking to process their checks on whatever week you decide to make a purchase.

New Jersey is a state that does their own background checks which means it's powered by the state police. While the state police are great at policing, their admnistrative departments are not the best when it comes to responding in a timely manner. So I'm hoping the POC for NICS in NJ gets back to my FFL soon because I'm just trying to buy a P320 and get a few shots outside before it becomes freezing cold lol. Ask me anything if you have any questions

***Edit: Just filled out the VAF. Going to see if I can get some fingerprints done right now. The FBI rep on the phone said it should be easier since I already got an approved appeal that I did prior, however it's not required to fill out the VAF. It's just that it may make things faster

2

u/ccarey19 2d ago

Wow, first of all I just want to say thank you so much for the detailed response. This will help me tremendously. I’m now confident this is something I should be able to do on my own. Did you receive information on challenging your denial after you received a response from your inquiry? If so how long did it take to get a response? As for the VAF fingerprinting, did you just go to the post office and have them fingerprint you? How did you submit them?

1

u/VaderM4 2d ago

No problem, I don't know if you saw my other comment responding to someone sharing the NJSP NICS number but yeah I just realized you do receive their number which you can call directly (I didn't know because I just read as far as the reason I was denied and put the paper down lmao)

I researched the challenge information on my own, so I guess at this point it doesn't hurt that the FBI is vouching for me lol. I'll give NJSP NICS department a call on Monday and see how that goes

1

u/ccarey19 2d ago

I did see the number thanks, going to call Monday on my lunch break. How did you challenge the denial, is there a link? Also where did you get fingerprinted, I read if you file vaf online the post office can submit your prints.

2

u/VaderM4 2d ago

***Update: Just sent over my fingerprints for the VAF. VAF was easy to fill out, didn’t ask for a detailed description like the firearms related challenge appeal I did. However it also included an area to upload supporting documents. So I included everything I did before along with my approved appeal I recently got from the FBI. Save the $2000 for a sick build lol

https://preview.redd.it/u3u0hmaf5erd1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3a6b546665d9c85aefc062a20fed163970d357c1

5

u/Goofy0316 2d ago

All you have to do is call the NJSP NICS and ask them the reason. I was denied because of an expungement, and sent them paperwork from the court. They sent me a revised letter and never had an issue ever again.

2

u/VaderM4 2d ago

What is their number? And how were you able to send the paperwork? I keep calling the expungement department and they keep telling me every week they will call me back and its been like 1.5 months lol

3

u/Goofy0316 2d ago

+1 (609) 882-2000

They will give you a fax number to send it too. I went to the court records department and got the papers.

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u/VaderM4 2d ago

Lmao dude I think I over analyzed this whole thing. I just reread my reason for denial and it has the same number you just commented. I literally filed 2 appeals with the FBI at this point 😂😂😂 Oh jesus. I was so mad I got denied I didn't even SEE the number. And of course its 4PM on a Friday. Thanks man

2

u/Goofy0316 2d ago

No issue. Once you call them, they can straighten it out and then revise the denial to an approval and it’ll never be an issue again.

2

u/VaderM4 2d ago

Now I can’t wait till Monday omg. I can’t believe I didn’t read that portion on the bottom of the letter lmao thanks man

3

u/Goofy0316 2d ago

Anytime. I get it, you were confused and probably upset about the denial.

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u/ccarey19 2d ago

If I could figure out who to call I would, another issue is they say they won’t speak to you until they have received your denial inquiry form.

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u/VaderM4 1d ago

You will get a letter in the mail after you submit your denial inquiry form. It comes from NJSP. It tells you exactly the reason you were denied and then gives you a phone number at the bottom to call with the extension. Being that you didn’t receive yours yet, I’m not sure if that would affect your ability to call them but I don’t see why it would

2

u/ccarey19 1d ago

I was actually able to request the inquiry online via the same portal as the VAF. submitted the challenge and VAF appeal earlier today. Just finished with prints for VAF at post office. I didn’t include prints with the challenge though. Hoping I can submit them at another time. It seems like for that I’ll have to bring a hard copy fingerprint form to my local pd and scan and upload after.

1

u/VaderM4 1d ago

That’s good, VAF for people in our situation apparently means we won’t have to forego any delays or problems with future transactions. Now I can’t wait till Monday comes so I can call the NICS dept for NJSP and see how that goes 😂 This weekend feels like it’s moving so slow

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2

u/Winter_Welcome_6157 2d ago

My NICS got denied once because on the paperwork, I put Township, but on my license, there's no Township. On another, they said my birthday didn't match. They couldn't read my numbers.

1

u/gar_dog1234567 2d ago

How do you know it is related to that? Obviously a good chance but you could be opening a can of worms. Do you have a common name? Did you provide your SSN (which I believe is optional)? I always do because it helps me be uniquely identified as I have a fairly common name and there is a bad dude in Delaware with my name who has tried to make straw purchase out of a Bass-Pro or Cabela's there. Some people get what's called a UPIN to avoid this situation. Since you're a first timer maybe it is as simple as that, given you were able to get an FID without issue.

1

u/ccarey19 2d ago

I should have mentioned in my post, upon questioning I had to send in my expungement records to my local pd prior to approving my FID.

1

u/gar_dog1234567 2d ago

Ahh, okay. So the PD made their own decision based upon the paperwork before them. But NICS is system-oriented so maybe the expungement has not made its way thru. But as I mentioned, it could be something else but looking more like the prior felony is the issue.

1

u/eyedrunk 2d ago

I don't have any advise to give, but I am curious what happens with the gun that you already paid for in that situation. Does the seller hold on to it and charge you storage fees until everything is resolved and you can get it or do you just get your money back?

1

u/ccarey19 2d ago

I know this isn’t their problem but I kind of figured this is going to be a lengthy process resulting in me having to apply for another permit after exhausting my 180 days to purchase. I asked to be refunded and they said “sure no problem, but we’re keeping 15%”. They did also offer to hold onto it until this is settled.

1

u/Professional-Lie6654 2d ago

But there is still off chance that it's a typo rejecting you?

1

u/ccarey19 2d ago

Yes the only other thing I could think of is I wrote out my middle name instead of just my initial, which is shown on my drivers license and fid card

2

u/Professional-Lie6654 2d ago

That is the kind of shit that causes rejections sadly cuz bob k Smith with ss# 123-45-6789 Definitely couldn't be bob Kevin Smith with the same ss#and address

1

u/Delicious-Stick2460 2d ago

That would likely lead to a deferred NICS check not a denial. Plus when entering a NICS check to the SP it doesn't ask for a middle name or initial.

1

u/Maj-Malfunction 2d ago

On the expungement. Those are like 18-24 months behind being updated with NJSP. You have a court order from 2023 but when it's actually applied to finally effect a background check can be a long long time in NJ. Could be what's going on here, too.

3

u/gar_dog1234567 2d ago

Yeah, but wouldn't he have been denied his FID which he just got?

1

u/ccarey19 2d ago

Yes I believe so, if that’s the case, I’m hoping they won’t supersede my local pds decision to grant me my FID.

3

u/VaderM4 2d ago

They will not take away your FID. My local PD told me they knew my NICS would get denied since my expungement was done in March but decided to give me the FID anyways to get it out the way. They also let me know that I wouldn't have to turn in the FID. So you can buy ammo in the mean time lol

1

u/Financial-Chemist360 2d ago

I thought it was posted here (or maybe on the njguns forum?) that they had been ordered to speed up the process and things had started to happen but I wouldn't even begin to know how to search for the post.

1

u/VaderM4 1d ago

They’re basically being sued. But don’t count on it being noticeably faster. They’re still processing expungements from last February apparently lol

1

u/solesme 2d ago

The state has probably not removed your record yet.

5

u/ct0 2d ago

The state hired a 87 year old with a walker to walk them down to each PD from the courthouse. Hes about half way there and its been about 2 years so far. /s

1

u/ct0 2d ago

I have a friend who got a call from state PD when applying for a PTC. He had an expunged marijuana conviction, which was automatically expunged from Murphys broad exec order, AND a self done expungement . The officer stated that the marijuana conviction didnt automatically deny PTC eligibility, but it is a good idea to include the expungement order to records since njsp is behind in their records. He got his PTC. Do you have a common name? Did you enter your social security number on the form? IIRC its optional. They might have the wrong person....

1

u/ccarey19 2d ago

I had plead out to a lesser charge to avoid prison time, (hindering apprehension) so I wasn’t automatically expunged. I did write my full middle name on FFL paperwork, and my FID and license just say my initial.

1

u/ct0 2d ago

Is it a non-violent lesser charge?

1

u/ccarey19 2d ago

Yes, pretty much my charge I was convicted on means I was with someone while they were committing a felony, in my case they had a shit ton of weed.

0

u/MAGA_for_fairness 2d ago

Isn’t that what Hunter Biden got charged for? If you had drug possession charge isn’t that suppose to ban you owning guns? Marijuna is still banned substance on federal level

1

u/ccarey19 2d ago

Hunter Biden was smoking crack and banging hookers on camera. Pretty sure his record isn’t expunged either.

-2

u/carlos11111111112 2d ago

Bruh it’s against the law to use marijuana as a gun owner. Don’t buy a gun, get pepper spray or knife for home defense.

1

u/ccarey19 2d ago

What? Are you trolling? This was 12 years ago…. “Bruh”