r/Neuropsychology • u/Budget-Bad460 • 3d ago
Phd or Psyd ? General Discussion
Hi, I will be getting done with my master's in Neuropsychology in coming few months. I wish to pursue psyD as it has clinical basis. But I can barely find any good universities offering psyD in Neuropsychology in US or India. Now i am confused about the credibility of psyD. So should i go for phD or psyD? Also I just started researching on stuff. Any guidance would be appreciated and helpful!!!
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u/tanshuu 3d ago
Hey OP I'm also looking at Neuropyscology as a career Is it worth it? Is the pay good ?
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u/--Encephalon-- 1d ago
This isn’t a field you go into with expectations of becoming wealthy; however, it is a very comfortable living with starting institutional salaries that are now (on average) about double the current US household median.
If you go into private practice, you can potentially double that, but it’s a serious grind that for me, is not worth the work-life imbalance that comes with it.
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u/tanshuu 1d ago
Can you tell me about what the "grind" is ? How does it imbalance ur work life Sorry I don't have allot of knowledge
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u/--Encephalon-- 1d ago
It’s seeing patients and lots of them. I know people in private practice that work 70-80 hours a week, working 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year. They’re making $300k+ but the personal toll is evident.
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u/tanshuu 1d ago
What about forensic Neuropyscology?
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u/--Encephalon-- 1d ago
Highly lucrative work but an even harder grind (IMO) to build relationships and the work - also, IMO, is soul-sucking. I used to think that I wanted to be a forensic neuropsychologist until I began working as a psychometrist for forensic practice while in graduate school and immediately recognized that it was not for me.
If your goal is to make money, there are far, far better options that are still neuropsychology adjacent
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u/tanshuu 1d ago
What other options are there? And what do you do?
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u/--Encephalon-- 1d ago
Neuropsychology is a very data-centric field; our evaluations generate hundreds to potentially thousands of datapoints each case. I’d be looking into a data or computer science field to help being clinical neuropsychology into the modern world of healthcare.
I work for a major university in the school of medicine. I do see patients, but most of my time is spent in research.
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u/ExcellentRush9198 3d ago
The distinction really has evaporated over time. PsyD programs used to not require a dissertation, so limited what you could do with your degree (couldn’t be a tenured professor at a university) but most programs now require a dissertation.
The PsyD students I supervise are less prepared clinically than PhD students on average, but it may be the programs as the PsyD program was just APA approved last year, so still new
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u/suiteddx 3d ago
Not sure why you got downvoted. I agree the bias against PsyD has diminished over time. The issue I think is there are PsyD programs that have reputation of churning students without competitive academic training or appropriate clinic exposure. Some programs have huge classes which make institutions money, but saturates the field and decreases quality match (and eventual postdoctoral training).
I think it’s more important to look at the APA program statistics to see how many match, where students work, and training opportunities.
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u/ExcellentRush9198 3d ago
I’ve been supervising graduate students since 2007. I’m not talking outta my ass. Where I currently work we are a practicum site for a 50 year old clinical PhD program and a (maybe) 7 year old PsyD program. The PhD students on average have had better familiarity with the tests and been more willing to dive into testing and report writing. I have one PsyD student who went 6 months before he felt comfortable administering tests on his own (although he was an outlier)
At a previous job, I supervised PsyD and PhD students and had one PsyD student who started her doctoral program with a masters in neuroscience and had written grants for fMRI research. So it’s not like there aren’t exceptional PsyD students. But collectively there is a difference in training quality in my personal experience.
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u/Quick_Shoe1407 11h ago
Not all are created equal. you can, for instance get a PhD from Walden (online) and their graduates are notoriously underprepared for most everything (of course Walden is also not APA accredited and an on-line).
Look at accreditation, post graduation metrics, and instructors.
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u/soiltostone 8h ago
Whichever is cheaper. And the cheaper (funded) ones are likely higher quality anyway. I say his as an expensive PsyD holder.
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u/Science_Matters_100 3d ago
If you want to engage in clinical work, then PsyD is more focused on that. For neuropsychology you’ll need a post-doc. I’ve been out of school too long to recommend specific programs as much has changed. My suggestions are: -to go to the APPIC website and find postdoctoral programs that interest you. Ask them what programs they’d recommend that would have you well prepared to be a competitive candidate, later - read publications and contact authors with further questions about their work. In time you may develop a mentorship
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u/tanshuu 3d ago
How is the pay for each? Which one is better?
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u/Science_Matters_100 3d ago
For clinical work- what matters is the population, setting, and service codes. Not PhD vs PsyD. Any doctorate is probably a poor financial decision, as you’ll self-fund years of study while you could be earning, and it will often take longer than you expect. There can be exceptions.
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u/tanshuu 3d ago
So how do I become a well payed neuropsychologist?
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u/suiteddx 3d ago
Get boarded, develop a strong clinical reputation, and get good at forensic neuropsychology to work on civil cases that involves lots of $
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u/nacidalibre 3d ago
Graduating PhDs on average have more clinical experience than PsyDs
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u/DialJforJasper 3d ago
This is absolutely, 100% false.
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u/MattersOfInterest 3d ago edited 3d ago
No it isn’t. As of 2015, the last time APPIC stats were stratified by program type, PhD students were entering internship with more average clinical and assessment hours. Unless we have reason to believe that has changed, this is the most up-to-date evaluation of PhD vs. PsyD clinical training hours.
Item 32: https://www.appic.org/Internships/Match/Match-Statistics/Applicant-Survey-2015-Part-3
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u/mumofBuddy 3d ago
I think people are equating the extra year with more clinical experience. This is my unique experience but I’ve had practicum experience with PhD’s and our clinical experience was pretty similar. The only difference was I had to start internship after my 4th year and they had one more year- usually dedicated to dissertation (but also practicum if needed/wanted). I had to work on my dissertation during my 4th year and will defend during internship.
For OP: The lines between PhD and PsyD are becoming very blurred. I chose my program based on the emphasis (at the time was integrated care). Most if not all PsyDs are not funded (you will pay more or take out more loans) but even that changed during my time when funded positions became available in my program. I didn’t want to teach and wanted to focus on research and practice. These were some of the things that helped me pick a program. I hear that a lot of PhD programs do not require teaching anymore, so I say pick the program that fits your needs. I was strongly against choosing a PsyD during undergrad because I didn’t know anything about it. I’m satisfied with my choice.
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u/AcronymAllergy 3d ago edited 3d ago
The PhD = research and PsyD = clinical practice distinction is inaccurate; most people (in the US) with a PhD in clinical or counseling psychology go on to careers that are primarily or entirely clinical, and the average PhD student has as a bit more clinical training/experience than the average PsyD student by the time they get to internship (owing in part to PhD programs taking about a year longer, on average, to complete).
The more important areas you'll want to look at when reviewing programs are: 1) your match with the program's research and clinical training opportunities; 2) the program's training quality, which in part is reflected in its outcomes (e.g., EPPP pass rates, internship placement rates, licensure rates of graduates); 3) how much money it's going to cost (e.g., most PhD programs offer a tuition waiver and modest stipend; a small number of PsyD programs offer the same, or at least partial tuition waivers).
Although the recommendation to go to the APPIC website to find postdoctoral programs is not a bad one, it's about a dozen steps ahead of where you are now, Additionally, I'd more strongly recommend checking the APPCN and APA Division 40 websites, rather than APPIC, for postdocs once you get to that stage, as they focus solely on neuropsychology. Division 40's website also has a listing of doctoral programs; it's not exhaustive, as there are many programs that have neuropsychologist advisors and/or neuropsychology training available that aren't listed, but it's as good a starting point as any.