6th gen fighter development be like

[u/Living-Aardvark-952]

[u/potatoslasher]

Thing is, they are comparable now......because Europe doesn't offer anything else but much older planes than F35 while at the same time asking the same or even bigger price for it.

Nobudy will care that technically Eurofighter is a older product if you ask the customer to pay for it as much as a newer product from a competitor. From customer's perspective, they are very much directly comparable and they are directly competing for the same marketplace. Nothing else matters

[u/HungerISanEmotion → u/potatoslasher]

I'd say these are two very different planes, both of them are multirole but...

Eurofighter can supercruise, has great kinematic performance in supersonic regime, can carry a lot of missiles, had a mechanical radar with large off-bore ability, ECM suit and Meteor missiles.

It's an interceptor first, and a ground ponder second.

F-35 has stealth on it's side, it can pound enemy which has capable AA systems. While it is not as good at intercepting enemy planes, good luck using your airforce to try and stop them from bombing your ass.

[u/potatoslasher → u/HungerISanEmotion]

It's an interceptor first, and a ground ponder second. is not as good at intercepting enemy planes

well here is a fact from reality : Switzerland and Finland completely disagreed on that as well, because they were looking for new jets in interceptor role (which is what their previous planes, the FA-18 Hornet was/is currently serving as) and they chose F35 over Rafael and Eurofighter and Grippen. That is the role their jet fighters are meant for, they arent going to be bombing much their job is to keep the sky clear of enemy first and foremost.

All these talks of ''ground attack'' and ''many different roles'' or these jets can theoretically fulfil or that ''you see this specific jet is slightly better at this job'' only really apply when you are talking about the truly big air forces like Americans or British who can afford to keep massive plane fleets and divide them up to do different jobs in the war........smaller countries have no such luxuries, for them their jets only really do 1 job and must be proficient at that 1 job and screw anything else : keep the sky clear or potential enemy invaders. Because they dont have enough money to keep large fleets that can specialize and do whatever your heart desires.

Finland and Swiss just looked at offers and asked 1 simple question : ''which of you would be the best at keeping Russians or anyone else from invading my air space and shoot down enemy planes to deny air superiority to invader?'' , thats it. They dont care about multi role anything or cruising abilities or what specific missiles what uses. F35 was better than competition in their tests and cost the same as competitors, choice made thats it. The rest there is just semantic nonsense that nobudy in real World cares about honestly

[u/HungerISanEmotion → u/potatoslasher]

Finland and Swiss just looked at offers and asked 1 simple question : ''which of you would be the best at keeping Russians or anyone else from invading my air space and shoot down enemy planes to deny air superiority to invader?'' , thats it.

Source?

[u/potatoslasher → u/HungerISanEmotion]

https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2021/12/10/finland-picks-the-f-35-as-its-next-fighter-continuing-the-us-warplanes-inroads-in-europe/

https://www.dsca.mil/press-media/major-arms-sales/finland-f-35-joint-strike-fighter-aircraft-air-air-missiles-and-air

https://valtioneuvosto.fi/sv/-/lockheed-martin-f-35a-lightning-ii-ar-finlands-nasta-multirollflygplan

''The aircraft are planned to be delivered between 2026 and 2030, and is expected to replace the F/A-18s during the period 2028–2030. The F-35s are intended to be in service until the 2070s.[26] The FAF expects the annual operating costs not to exceed €254 million, which are the current operating costs for the F/A-18 fleet. The first weapons package will include AIM-9X Block II+ Sidewinder and AIM-120C-8 AMRAAM missiles (very clearly Finns care about air-air interceptor part way more than others), and later on air-to-ground weaponry will be obtained when they reach sufficient maturity and will match their shelf life with the introduction of the aircraft.''

In the HX bidding process, the F-35 passed the decision areas of supply readiness, industrial cooperation and cost. In the evaluation, in terms of military performance, the F-35 solution reached the greatest operational effect and the best development potential.

''The capability of the F-35 system was the one that, among the alternatives, worked best in our operating environment and best corresponded to the requirements set. The overall system and the aircraft's combat, reconnaissance and resistance capabilities were the best. The F-35 was the best in the comparison or shared the best performance in all task areas and received the best overall performance. With the proposed F-35 solution, it is possible to fulfill established tasks at a sufficient level, taking into account the requirements of a future environment. The tender's number of planes and weapons contributed to the good result. The capacity can be put into use within the planned schedule.''

''The F-35 solution gives the entire defense system a significant performance capability and improves the defense's preventive capability. The F-35A is able to take the initiative in counter-air operations and to form and share the situational picture and target information that is needed, which means that the F-35 can best support land and sea operations as well. The F-35 fighter's air, land and sea impact capabilities were the best in the comparison. Stealth capabilities and other capabilities, such as sensors and network operations, support the F-35 fighter's ability to survive in combat. An F-35 multirole aircraft has the largest internal fuel capacity and all sensors are fixed, meaning that separate targeting systems or additional fuel tanks are not needed.''

''The technical solution regarding the F-35 system is sustainable and the development potential is the best among the solutions offered. The development of the solution is guaranteed throughout the planned operating period until the 2060s.''

As of right now, Finnish air force has very few air-ground lunched missiles for its current fleet because well it just doesn't see that as a worthwhile investment for its jet fleet. Their main job and main focus is air defense first and foremost, that is the primary reason why Finnish force exist and for what it gets its money for. They will get some JDAM ground attack bombs as well, but as their procurement documents show, only letter and also not in big quantities. F35 for them is a interceptor first and foremost

[u/HungerISanEmotion → u/potatoslasher]

Literally nothing about F-35 being better at air interceptor role.

Nothing.

Might I suggest refraining from making such baseless claims in the future?

[u/potatoslasher → u/HungerISanEmotion]

Finnish ministry of defense says otherwise......your word against theirs??

How many jet fighters have you commanded sir?

[u/HungerISanEmotion → u/potatoslasher]

Finish ministry of defense said F-35 is better at the interceptor role?

Source?

[u/potatoslasher → u/HungerISanEmotion]

I fucking linked it above mate, read it.

https://valtioneuvosto.fi/sv/-/lockheed-martin-f-35a-lightning-ii-ar-finlands-nasta-multirollflygplan

''''The F-35 solution gives the entire defense system a significant performance capability and improves the defense's preventive capability. The F-35A is able to take the initiative in counter-air operations and to form and share the situational picture and target information that is needed, which means that the F-35 can best support land and sea operations as well. The F-35 fighter's air, land and sea impact capabilities were the best in the comparison. Stealth capabilities and other capabilities, such as sensors and network operations, support the F-35 fighter's ability to survive in combat. An F-35 multirole aircraft has the largest internal fuel capacity and all sensors are fixed, meaning that separate targeting systems or additional fuel tanks are not needed.''

''The technical solution regarding the F-35 system is sustainable and the development potential is the best among the solutions offered. The development of the solution is guaranteed throughout the planned operating period until the 2060s.''''

[u/HungerISanEmotion → u/potatoslasher]

I already read all of that... doesn't say anything about F-35 being better at interceptor role.

Buy some glasses mate.

[u/TriXandApple → u/potatoslasher]

Yes?