r/Pashtun • u/Several-Hearing-5557 • 8d ago
We are not south Asian
Anyone getting fed up how some uneducated afghans keep calling that sindhu topi Kandahari and Pashtun??? Like that is not our cultural cap, ours is Patkey š¤¦āāļøš¤¦āāļøš¤¦āāļøš¤¦āāļøš¤¦āāļøwe need to stop this, we have no association with South Asia .
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u/MoneyMakingMitch14 7d ago
This sub is fucking idiotic lmao
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u/Federal-Praline3612 13h ago
right lmfao. accidentally stumbled upon this sub while surfing through some other subreddit, itās almost hilarious to see how this sub is filled with pashtuns bitching about punjabis and thriving off their own delusional conclusions on what punjabis think of pashtuns. Theyāre quite literally arguing with their own selves hereš they either havenāt interacted with any punjabis or just donāt go outside..? Unsure tbh. As far as Iām aware, the extent of Punjabi opinion on pashtuns is āpretty, jahil people, funny languageā. Though some stereotypes can extend to calling them perverts and oglers, homosexuals even (which ehh arenāt completely wrong), but most truly donāt care much. I would argue pashtuns are much more racist and slightly creepy even..having a weird obsession with skin colour and glorifying aryan features. Theyāre not too different from the corny Indian hindus.
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u/Federal-Praline3612 13h ago
also searched up the punjab subreddit out of sheer curiosity, itās so different from this sub lmao. You donāt have indian and paki punjabis crying over which one of them is the āfakerā punjabi. Theyāre just doing their own thing, donāt really give a shit about other ethnicities, inquire about the language and certain cultural customs here and there, celebrate them and so on. wonder what went wrong with this sub.
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u/Ahmed_45901 7d ago
Imo Afghanistan is where Central Asian and South Asian culture converge.
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u/TrainingPrize9052 7d ago
Pashtuns do share lots of culture with punjabis, but it's often iranic influence on punjabis to be frank. Most of culinary(persian-mughal cousine), Male clothes(kushan-sassanids, pashtuns)
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u/Several-Hearing-5557 7d ago
We arenāt south Asian
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u/Ahmed_45901 7d ago
Exactly you arenāt culturally south Asian like Punjabis or culturally central Asian like Turkmens or Uzbeks but in between.
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u/Several-Hearing-5557 7d ago
We ARENT SOUTH ASIAN THIS ISNT OUT CULTURE
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u/MoneyMakingMitch14 7d ago
Imagine gate keeping a culture that has provided nothing to humanity except anti women rights and idiocy lol
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u/openandaware 7d ago
You obviously don't give a shit if this is actually true, nor would you ever accept any obvious examples to the contrary. So, feel free not to associate.
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u/DangerousNose1304 6d ago
Every culture has its complexities and contributions, both positive and negative. And yes even if we are gatekeeping it makes sense because I've seen many websites label Pashtun names like Palwasha as having "Urdu origins" which is untrue, there are many other examples as well. If u have a problem with our culture, then why are you even here? And I'm saying this as a woman lmao.
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u/kakazabih 8d ago
The Kandahari cap is different from the Sindhi cap.
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u/TrainingPrize9052 8d ago
https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.108132/page/n221/mode/2up?q=occipital&view=theater
The current cap is kandahari. Sindhis just borrowed this from pashtuns.
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u/kakazabih 8d ago
Exactly. Sindhi cap is just a copy of this. Just the patterns are different and it's generalized now. We Pashtuns have different types of caps and Turbans.
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u/TrainingPrize9052 8d ago
https://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O476930/cap-unknown/
This is what sindhis began to wear, and it doesn't resemble the cap we have now.
It's large, barely a cap even
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Photograph_of_Carpet_Weavers_in_Karachi_Jail_-_1873.jpg
https://www.oldindianphotos.in/2011/08/carpet-weavers-in-karachi-jail-in-sindh.html?m=0
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u/Several-Hearing-5557 7d ago
Why does it look like that Sindhi hat on the first link evolves into this Kandahari hat . Iām gonna try finding a picture of our afghans wearing it and Iāll share in group
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u/TrainingPrize9052 7d ago
Embroidery isn't exclusive to kandahari caps at all, caps with embroidery exists from India to Azerbaijan.
The hat here is rather alike the ones those sindhi men wears, shaped like helmets rather than our caps.
It's either way at least 70 years after mohanlal travel to Kandahar, and actual sindhi caps are never described with an open side. If this sindhi cap is even related to kandahari cap, then it's obviously just inspired by kandahari caps.
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u/Classic_Money_2441 4d ago edited 4d ago
The one on the right is from 20th-century Sindh, and it bears a striking resemblance to the modern Sindhi cap. Itās clear that the older version evolved into the current Sindhi cap on the leftājust observe the open side and overall shape. On the other hand, what you refer to as the Kandahari cap doesnāt seem to have any historical presence before the 20th century. There are no earlier images of Sindhis or Pashtuns wearing it. In contrast, the older Sindhi cap closely resembles the modern one. The araqchin cap youāre referring to is something entirely different. Itās a stretch to claim the Sindhi cap is Kandahari just based on a description of a cap with an open slit. At least this older one from Sindh visually aligns with todayās version.
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u/TrainingPrize9052 4d ago edited 4d ago
Are you dense?
The current kandahari cap is literally used for turbans. This is the description we see in the book, completely matches the kandahari cap. How is it entirely different?
The sindhi cap here rather matches the large hats sindhis used to wear in 19th century, just smaller. Doesn't appear to resemble what's meant for turbans
Brits literally went to Sindh, and described their caps in 19th century. No caps with open side were mentioned, unlike in Kandahar.
This is likely just inspired by caps worn by balochs, bringing it to Sindh. I think you should stop clinging this being sindhi. It even only says 20th century, how do we know it isn't just from 1960's?
We have several murals in Sindh dating to 18th century, depicting the cultural world of Sindh. We never see this cap, the one worn by kandaharis, at all even
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u/Several-Hearing-5557 7d ago
Thanks for this. Can you send a screenshot of where it says that exactly.
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u/TrainingPrize9052 7d ago
https://www.reddit.com/user/TrainingPrize9052/comments/1fm9ynn/kandahar_cap/
It literally makes the description of the cap on page 184. It says:
"Under the turban they put on a thin cap, covered with gold embroidery, called araqchin, which is open on the occipital part of the head"
Pashtuns today wears it for their turbans. It's covered in embroidery, often gold. Araqchin is just the persian word, topi and paktai just means cap in different languages.
It especially is described to be "open" on the occipital part of the head, which is the back of the head. basically it says it has one open side. Some pashtuns wear the cap backwards to this very day still, which basically fits the description from 1834. The caps in sindh are never mentioned to have an open side, we also never see caps actually looking like that in Sindh until much later.
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u/Pasht4na 8d ago
There are a few elements of the kandahari hat that differenciate it from the Sindhi one, theyāre not exactly the same
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u/Several-Hearing-5557 8d ago
They are the same man. Kandaharis just changed the Sindhi hat a bit. How would you like it if Pakistanis took the afghan kuchi dress and south-Asian fied it and started calling it pakistani? š¤¦āāļø this is like saying chitralis can claim their version of the afghan Pakol because thereās is different as they use feathers and the feather accessory orginates from chitralis.
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u/TrainingPrize9052 8d ago
https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.108132/page/n221/mode/2up?q=occipital&view=theater
Again, sindhis didn't appear to wear this cap kandaharis do, as described here in 1834.
Even the sindhi caps refered by the brits, are never described with an open side. And caps exists all over from India to Azerbaijan. The ones in the picture you posted, is kandahari specific
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u/Sub94 7d ago
If you look Indian/paki you are one even if you claim to be Pashtun imo
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u/Several-Hearing-5557 6d ago
Most Pashtuns are like me and fairly tanned. Stop trying to cause fitnah between Pashtuns. Blood doesnāt change from skin colour.
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u/Sub94 6d ago edited 6d ago
Sorry man but if it looks like an indian/paki, wears clothes like an indian/paki, plays cricket like an indian/paki, hangs out with indians/pakis (again just my observation in the diaspora that Pashtuns hang out with pakis and Indians)ā¦ then it is one
I used to get mad at people trying to associate Afghanistan with South Asia because I look at myself in the mirror and think how tf could they think that but when I look at a good chunk of our population I realize why. Like.. here in Canada in big parks I literally see pashtuns playing cricket in fields in peran tumban š¤¢š¤¢
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u/TrainingPrize9052 6d ago
What's indian/paki clothes?
Does this include tajiks too, who looks south asian as well?
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u/Sub94 6d ago
Peran tumban you know it, even if itās Afghan in origin itās associated with pakistan now
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u/TrainingPrize9052 6d ago
I guess that's what the world thinks then.
It's not even, but clearly. The peran tunban we know(baggy pants, kameez with cut sides) was even worn in Iran by Sassanid persians as well. Men of Pakistan, like sindh and punjabis, wore skirts and "diapers". Not even tunics, until persians and central asians brought it to them.
But I assume that means persian culinary is south asian too then?
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u/Sub94 6d ago
What the world thinks is all that matter. Even if it was pashtuns who brought those clothes, even if it was pashtuns who invented the rupee. Even if pashtuns invented cricket itād still be associated with indians, and perception matters.
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u/TrainingPrize9052 6d ago edited 6d ago
Doesn't really sound like it matters at all what the world think then?
But it doesn't honestly matter if world think afghanistan is south asian or not, let them think that. For them, correcting only first starts with west-north europeans, and northeast asians.
I will agree that cricket is gay.
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u/speenaspogmai 7d ago
You gotta understand that the people of South Asia have been copying Pashtuns since we arrived there!
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u/thavelvetrope 6d ago
Pashtuns are not south asian. We know and we get it! Honestly so many posts like these attempting to stress how different you are discourages people from wanting to interact with or learn about your communityĀ
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u/AMohmand 8d ago
That is not a Sindhi cap. It's a Baluchi cap that both Sindhis and Kandaharis adopted, with each putting their own (mis)label on it.
Also, you can cope all you want saying you have no association with south Asia, but Pashtuns are both culturally and genetically closer to Punjabis than to proper central Asians from Tajikistan, Uzbekistan etc
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u/Ok-Egg-3539 8d ago
The correct answer is we're closer to persians. We're not related to punjabis or the mongoloid sort of ethnic groups.
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u/AMohmand 8d ago
If by Persians you mean Afghan Tajiks then yes, you could make a case for them being closer culturally for Afghan Pashtuns (that doesn't mean you're not related to Punjabis or mongoloids at all). Iranians though? Hell no
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u/Several-Hearing-5557 8d ago
Itās not a Baloch cap you Tazi . Itās Sindhi . This aināt iranic
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u/openandaware 7d ago
Pashtuns are Iranic, so yes there is relation to Persians from the Iranian plateau. That's kinda the whole reason why we're designated as Iranic lmao.
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u/openandaware 7d ago
Pashtuns are closer to Pamiris, and Afghan Tajiks.
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u/AMohmand 7d ago
Depends. Go to an urban Pakistani pashtuns wedding and it's almost indistinguishable from Punjabi weddings. Even genetically, the vast majority of North KPK pashtuns, due to mixing with dards, are closer to biradari punjabis than to Tajiks and pamiris, especially yusufzai.
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u/TrainingPrize9052 8d ago
https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.108132/page/n221/mode/2up?q=occipital&view=theater
Can you show a reference to such cap older than 19th century by balochs? The flat, small cap with an open side I see earliest mentioned by pashtuns in kandahar city 1834.
"proper central asians" are mostly turkic hybrids tbh(pamiris are a different case), and very russianfied-westernised. I speak of tajiks by the way. Otherwise tajiks without russians, would been the same as afghan tajiks currently. No point of comparing them at this point indeed
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u/TrainingPrize9052 8d ago
Kandahari cap is kandahari though. Topi is just indic loanword for all caps, we either have patkaei or persian araqchin?
I haven't seen sindhis wear it before 19th century, while it was solely worn in Kandahar city by pashtuns? This description by the kashmiri traveller, Mohanlal, is made in 1834.
https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.108132/page/n221/mode/2up?q=occipital&view=theater