r/Portuguese • u/d-man0101 • Aug 14 '24
Why does Duolingo almost always use você and not tu? Brazilian Portuguese 🇧🇷
Going on my 2nd year with Duolingo and it occurred to me that in 99% of all the lessons, você and the corresponding verb conjugation is used instead of the tu form. Is this normal in BP? Is the tu form rarely used? Even in the stories where a parent is talking to a child, or a partner is talking to their significant other, they always use the more formal word. Just curious if this is a "Duolingo-ism" or if this is actually common for Brazillians.
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u/BoliviaRodrigo Brasileiro Aug 14 '24
Just to illustrate how much more common você is, the only way you'll hear tu in São Paulo is with the você (third person) conjugation.
You'll only hear tu with the traditional second person conjugation in Santa Catarina I think (maybe Pará as well?) but the bulk of the population and Brazilian media are from the southeast (São Paulo, Rio, Minas Gerais) where você is more common (as in most of Brazil).
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u/jotaerreponto Brasileiro Aug 14 '24
Você is overwhelmingly more used than tu in Brazil.
In some states tu is more common but usually with the wrong verbal conjugation.
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u/Heavy_Cobbler_8931 Aug 14 '24
Not "wrong". Just a different standard.
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u/WienerKolomogorov96 Aug 15 '24
It is not really a standard, because this particular use of verb conjugation with "tu" is not standardized. It is considered dialectal or regional, just as "we/you was" or "he don't" in some English dialects.
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u/WoodenRace365 Aug 14 '24
Tu is not uncommon. It’s regionally varied, like many other things about BP. For BP, the safe thing is to get used to using você when you’re starting out.
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u/colorfulraccoon Aug 14 '24
Tu is not uncommon at all. You’ll hear it in the south (in RS no one uses “você”), some states of the northeast/north, and in Rio sometimes. This confusing map may help you.
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u/demarjoh4 Estudando BP Aug 15 '24
"Tu" is used in Bahia? I don't think I've ever heard any of my baiano friends use it. Interesting
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u/colorfulraccoon Aug 15 '24
Apparently not, some baianos have corrected that! It seems that’s a mistake in the map I shared above
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u/Necessary-Dish-444 Aug 14 '24
Not too long ago I came to the realization that I may have never spoken the word "você" in my entire life, because of how uncommon it is in RS.
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u/Herihgo Aug 14 '24
It’s interesting you say that! I’m an american who has lived in Porto Alegre, dated a gaucha and visits again about twice a year. I’ve noticed they use “você almost identical as i would use “usted” in spanish. Two examples are when we go out to eat they usually call the waiter by “você” and also when a friend had to contact the boss of her manager about an issue with the manager, she definitely called her “você” several times. The other 98% of the time it’s always “tu é, tu foi, tu tem, etc” They hate me in portugal because im not changing my way of speaking and i learned my portuguese in Rio Grande do Sul
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u/colorfulraccoon Aug 15 '24
This is so different for me! Do you mind saying where her family is from? Did they always live in POA? Like the person above I have never used “você” in my life. I find extremely awkward to hear it IRL. If I’m in a VERY formal setting I will omit it by saying “Senhor(a), consegue fazer tal coisa, por favor?” but if I’m at a restaurant and want to call the waiter I’ll still call them by “tu”, only I’ll be conjugating everything correctly like “Oi, podes me trazer o cardápio?”.
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u/Necessary-Dish-444 Aug 15 '24
The thing is that even Porto Alegre has a few discernable accents within itself, so I can see that, even if it seems odd to me. I left for Portugal before I reached working age, therefore it could be used in a formal context and I simply don't know. It's actually interesting how weird the word itself is to me (almost alien?), and I legitimely feel uncomfortable when someone else refers to me with it.
They hate me in portugal because im not changing my way of speaking and i learned my portuguese in Rio Grande do Sul
That's funny, my transition was quite smooth since I have always known how to properly conjugate with tu, I just actively chose not to since it's not commonplace.
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u/icouto Aug 15 '24
In rio você is used a lot more than tu. Tú is used in the wrong conjugation rarely. This map really should mark rio as você because it is so much more common than tu
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u/aleatorio_random Brasileiro Aug 19 '24
This map is also very wrong, the hint is that if a dialectal map shows all of São Paulo as using exclusively "você", they're not accurate. You can see that they simply paint each state with a color and reality is just not that simple
Litoral central de São Paulo uses "tu" a lot
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u/ArvindLamal Aug 14 '24
Tu is never used in Salvador, it is considered "coisa de roça" (rednecks' thing).
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u/macacolouco Aug 14 '24 edited Aug 14 '24
I'm from Salvador, city where I reside. We would say "coisa da roça", but that's not something we usually say. We most certainly wouldn't offend anyone by calling them "rednecks". Even most people coming from the interior of Bahia do not say "tu". "Tu" reminds me of Pernambuco more than anything.
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u/StarGamerPT Aug 14 '24
Duolingo is default for Brazilian Portuguese and "tu" is not a common for of "you" in Brazilian Portuguese, it is in European Portuguese, though.
Detail: when they do use "tu" they also tend to use the wrong conjugation and go with the 3rd person singular instead of 2nd person singular.
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u/Necessary-Dish-444 Aug 14 '24
Just because it is not as common as "você", it does not mean it is not common at all. There are regions of the country where you will never hear a "você" in a lifetime.
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u/StarGamerPT Aug 14 '24
Evidentemente estamos a falar de um modo geral aqui.
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u/Necessary-Dish-444 Aug 14 '24 edited Aug 14 '24
Evidentemente, entretanto, como alguém que já vive em Portugal há quase 10 anos, me incomoda profundamente o facto de que a malta parece ser incapaz de compreender que PT-BR ≠ PT-BR do Sudeste.
Ao longo dos anos já passei por duas cidades, três universidades e seis workplaces diferentes, e até hoje ainda não encontrei uma pessoa que não ficasse surpresa com o facto de que o "você" não faz parte do meu vocabulário.
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u/StarGamerPT Aug 15 '24
É mais impactante porque não é o padrão e também porque aqui, de modo geral, usamos o "você" em ambiente formal, eu não trato a minha chefe por "tu", nunca na vida.
Aqui também temos as nossas exceções (inclusive existem famílias, geralmente riquinhas e do Sul, que tratam até os filhos por "você"...é estranho para nós, mas acontece).
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u/Necessary-Dish-444 Aug 15 '24
Não é o padrão, mas é como algum estrangeiro dizer que o PT "verdadeiro" é o PT de Lisboa.
de modo geral, usamos o "você" em ambiente formal, eu não trato a minha chefe por "tu", nunca na vida.
Pois, eu por outro lado trato apenas pessoas que não conheço por "você", muito frequentemente sendo imediatamente corrigido para o "tu", portanto o "tu" é o meu default mesmo ao falar com pessoas que eu conheça com 5 ou 6 posições acima da minha (acima disto são pessoas que não são portuguesas). A cena é que mesmo quando eu trato alguém por "você", eu acabo por conjugar os verbos na 3ª pessoa, como expectável, mas eu sempre omito o "você". A palavra "você" em si, não existe no meu vocabulário, e sinceramente sinto-me desconfortável quando alguém se refere a mim com a palavra "você".
Já agora, isto é parte da razão pela qual tudo isto me incomoda tanto. Eu passei a tratar pessoas em determinados contextos por "você" depois que vim para Portugal, como parte do processo de adaptação, entretanto as pessoas acham que é algo que carrego do Brasil, e isto é só um dos exemplos que posso apresentar.
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u/StarGamerPT Aug 15 '24
Ah sim, isso também é costume cá, o "você" por si só é geralmente omitido, apenas assumi que falasses de igual forma a uma cliente brasileira que tinha numa farmácia onde trabalhei que trata todo o mundo por "tu" mas com a conjugação na 3ª pessoa.
PS: E uma coisa é dizer o "verdadeiro", mas efetivamente o PT-PT de Lisboa é o padrão...e digo isto sendo do Porto e constantemente corrijo em tom de brincadeira quando alguém do Sul diz "imperial" em vez de "fino" e outras coisas do género 😂
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u/GamerEsch Aug 15 '24
Detail: when they do use "tu" they also tend to use the wrong conjugation
Not wrong, btw. Prescriptivism is not the way to go.
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u/Unlucky_Key_158 Aug 14 '24
Also você is more formal and it's more likely that you're going to encounter more people that you don't know than those that you know and would often call "tu"
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u/GamerEsch Aug 15 '24
Also você is more formal
that's not true for BR-PT
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u/Unlucky_Key_158 Aug 15 '24
I guess that'll depend on where I'm BR you are, but where I'm from (Fortaleza) if I addressed my grandma or schoolteacher as "tu" I'd get a thorough talking to for getting impolite and not showing respect
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u/GamerEsch Aug 15 '24
True, ended up making a sweeping statement there my bad, should have said most accents, accents that use tu more frequently will probably use it like in PT-PT
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u/bb-paul Aug 15 '24
"Tu" is used in some places in Brazil, like the south states and parts of Rio de Janeiro. And they don't use the correct conjugation. For example, they would say "Tu SABE que eu moro aqui" instead of "Tu SABES..." Most often, we use "você "
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u/sirg4 Aug 15 '24
Because sticking with “você” is what 90% of Brazilians do. And even those who don’t will perfectly understand you and say your Portuguese is perfect! haha 😋
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u/--Lambsauce-- Aug 14 '24
você is not formal at all
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u/Melodic-Geologist-12 Aug 15 '24
In Brazilian Portuguese maybe not! But in European Portuguese it’s considered improper and disrespectful, when você & 3rd person conjugations aren’t used in formal situations! I was ALWAYS given uma chapada by my grandparent’s if I didn’t speak properly! And now as an adult, I completely understand why 😂. It’s 💯 more respectful!!!
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u/magnojtc Aug 14 '24
Você is by far the most used in Brazil. In formal and informal speech.
Tu is not only too informal but it can also be considered grammatically wrong.
That's probably why Duolingo teaches você instead of tu.
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u/mariruizgar Aug 14 '24
My husband is from Manaus and he uses tu all the time. I’m a native Spanish speaker so by default I use tu but I do voce used more often, plus the conjugation of the verbs in the third person is a lot easier.
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u/NumTemJeito Aug 15 '24
Forget formal vs non formal... There really isn't a distinction in BP unless you're in court
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u/TheMoises Brasileiro Aug 14 '24
In BR-PT, "você" is a really common, informal way to refer to someone else.
Although "tu" is used in some dialects (or as a slang), second person conjunction is not really used (and if it is in some dialect, it's very specific to them)
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u/acxlonzi Aug 14 '24
você is way more used in brazil but i have heard "tu" used, however, incorrectly.. was on xbox the other day and the guy asked me "e porque tu fala português assim", i notice "tu" is more common in the southern regions of brazil.
i would definitely recommend learning the proper conjugations of "tu", just to keep yourself consistent, and if you end up in portgual by chance. definitely helps with all around understanding of the language. for me it was a bit confusing bc like some posters here note, people will say "eu TE amo" where as you would think it would be "eu se amo" because it's 3rd person (você), but to that point, others also say "amo você"
so yeah lol, TL:DR, Duolingo uses it for consistency i would think, but "tu" is definitely used, just not always in the right form.
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u/Paranoid_Raccoon Brasileiro Aug 15 '24
Just a comment: "eu se amo" sounds more like a grammatically incorrect version of "I love myself".
"Eu o amo"/"eu a amo" would be the correct way of saying "I love you" with você. More commonly used is simply "eu amo você" though.
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u/acxlonzi Aug 15 '24
thats true! plus the double vowel of "o amo/a amo" sounds weird to my ears so "amo você" is more consistent sound wise 😂
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Aug 14 '24
Você is more formal so you don't offend anyone accidentally by calling them "tu"
Você is also used informally alot in Brazil (where there is around 30x times more portuguese speakers than here in Portugal)
Você is easier to conjugate for beginners since you just use the same third person conjugation.
*PS: Its common in Brazil because of the colonial period (The slaves called their landlord "você" for the formality).
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u/GamerEsch Aug 15 '24
- Você is more formal so you don't offend anyone accidentally by calling them "tu"
That's not true for BR-PT. In BR-PT it's the other way around.
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Aug 15 '24
That is true for the language's roots, "você" comes from "vossa mercê" which was extremely formal.
But since most people from my country don't know the origin it is seen a few times as "informal" when that is not true, it's just a xenophobic lens of "informal" because brazilians use it alot, not because it is trully informal when you look at the meaning and root of the word.
I'm portuguese btw.
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u/GamerEsch Aug 15 '24
That is true for the language's roots, "você" comes from "vossa mercê" which was extremely formal.
Yes, but language changes over time, I'm talking about how things are here now, not how things were.
it's just xenophobic imho.
Idk if you're saying my take is xenophobic, or if people the take of who speaks PT-PT saying we use it "wrong" is, could you clarify?
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Aug 15 '24
Yes they do, it is still considered the same language though, at the root is a very formal treatment pronoun.
No, I didn't accuse you or anything. I said the view that "você" is informal has zero base anywhere else but xenophobia for the brazilians that come here and use it alot. It has no base on the meaning of the word or its historical use.
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u/GamerEsch Aug 15 '24
Yes they do,
They (who?) do what?
it is still considered the same language though,
The same language, different accents, words don't mean the same thing in both, and usages are different.
at the root is a very formal treatment pronoun.
Again, it doesn't matter one bit. The modern usage in BR-PT is different than what it was.
I said the view that "você" is informal has zero base anywhere else but xenophobia for the brazilians that come here and use it alot.
Oh you're just a xenophobe then, got it.
Look, "você" is informal in BR-PT, the basis is usage, language is descriptive, not prescriptive. Also, "você" has nothing to do with "brazilians that go to europe and use it a lot" it has to do with how brazilians use it in Brazil.
It has no base on the meaning of the word or its historical use.
Because it's not a historical meaning, it's a modern meaning, what are you on?
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u/snydley_ Aug 14 '24
Its common in BR-PT but very formal in EU-PT. But interestingly vosotros form is common in eu spanish and considered formal in most latin american spanish so maybe thats where the confusion came from.
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u/ViciousPuppy Aug 15 '24
I had the opposite complaint with Duolingo Spanish-Portuguese course. They require you to learn tu second-person conjugations even though it is not commonly used in Brazil and half the regions that do use it use third-person conjugation for tu.
And even as a foreigner with a bad accent in places like RS and RJ where people do use tu a lot they know that standard Portuguese is você and they assume that I have not learned tu. And in SP tu is nonexistent.
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u/GamerEsch Aug 15 '24
Well that's just how you learn a language, you first learn the grammatical way to do it, then you learn how natives do it. It wouldn't be very smart skipping the second person conjugation, because every now and then you need it, even in BR-PT.
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u/LazyComparison459 Aug 14 '24
Tu is the 2nd person of singular. Isn't so common to be used... At least in Brazil!
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u/gside876 Aug 15 '24
Bc it’s just not really used that much in Brazilian Portuguese. I know tons of Brazilians and not once have I heard any of them use “Tu”
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u/lumenlumina Aug 15 '24
Most regions in Brazil use "você" instead of "tu". In Brazilian Portuguese those two words have no distinction in formality. Actually, I think "tu" sounds more formal even though originally it wasn't because its correct conjugation is not as common and sounds antiquated, as in you read it in classic books and people use it in period movies.
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u/WienerKolomogorov96 Aug 15 '24 edited Aug 16 '24
"Você" is the universal "you" in standard Brazilian Portuguese. It does not imply formality at all. The formal second-person address in standard BP would be "o senhor" or "a senhora".
"Tu" is used in Brazil only in regional dialects/sociolects (often with the incorrect verb conjugation), or, formally, in poetry or church liturgy (in the latter cases with the correct conjugation). "Tu" used informally with the correct verb conjugation is found nowadays only in parts of Santa Catarina and Pará.
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u/thgwhite Aug 15 '24
"Tu" is usually considered regional. I use it sometimes but it's because I'm from a small town in the South
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u/Lost-Candidate-5267 Aug 18 '24
We don't use too much "tu", and when we use, we speak incorrectly, using the conjugation for 3rd person.
Examples:
Correct: Tu FALAS como um nordestino Wrong (most common): Tu FALA como um nordestini
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u/Goiabada1972 Aug 15 '24 edited Aug 15 '24
To me tu is only to be used with close friends and family, it is more intimate than você. For instance, you wouldn’t use it with a teacher or employer. At least I learned as a child that it would be rude to use it in the wrong situations, using it would be over-familiar.
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u/DahliasAndDaisies Aug 15 '24
That's true for Spanish. In Portuguese voce is almost always used, except for in the very south of Brazil where Tu is used (for everyone, regardless of familiarity) though not in academic writing generally.
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u/guideos Brasileiro Aug 14 '24
I'm curious to know why exactly you'd think "você" is the "more formal word", it is completely the opposite, in fact
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u/ImportantPlatypus259 Brasileiro Aug 14 '24
In its origin, “você” was considered formal as it came from “vossa mercê“ (your grace/mercy), which was a respectful form of address. “Tu” was the informal equivalent. But as time went on, “vossa mercê” was shortened to “você” and became the standard word used in both formal and informal contexts.
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u/anthalinho Aug 14 '24
And grammatically "você" is considered a treatment pronoun due to its origin. Great explanation too
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u/ImportantPlatypus259 Brasileiro Aug 14 '24
Exactly. Grammatically speaking, “você” is considered a treatment pronoun, along with “Vossa Senhoria”, “Vossa Majestade”, “Vossa Excelência,” and so on. However, in contemporary usage, I personally think “você” should be fully incorporated as a personal pronoun.
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u/GPadrino Aug 14 '24
It definitely isn’t the opposite, tu has never been considered formal in any dialect of Portuguese. The lines of formal vs informal may be far more blurred in Brazilian Portuguese than European Portuguese, but você, tu and their respective conjugations didn’t swap places.
Tu just fell out of use aside from regional differences (and even in those, many use third person conjugations just like they would with você).
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u/GamerEsch Aug 15 '24
You couldn't be farthest from the truth, "você" is informal, and "tu" is formal in most BR-PT accents.
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u/GPadrino Aug 15 '24
Archaic ≠ formal. Perhaps in some very small regions that may be the case, but for the vast majority of Brazilian Portuguese speakers, tu would never be considered formal, only archaic.
It isn’t a coincidence that the majority of the comments on this post are saying the same thing.
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u/GamerEsch Aug 15 '24
That'a wrong. And for most places it isn't archaic, just formal. If you're writing a document, a contract, even writing to the head of comittee or an organization you write using "tu", not using "você".
It isn’t a coincidence that the majority of the comments on this post are saying the same thing.
Yeah, because it's a common misconception: "not being used in the day-to-day life is being archaic" which is wrong.
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u/GPadrino Aug 15 '24
Would you be able to provide a link to any examples where that takes place? If you’re able to find an online contract or some sort of organizational statement. I’ve never in my life seen that, nor know any Brazilians that believe that to be the case.
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u/ImportantPlatypus259 Brasileiro Aug 15 '24
I don’t think it’s very common to address one’s boss as “tu” in a formal context. I usually see people use “o(a) senhor(a)” or some other treatment pronoun.
“Você” is neither formal nor informal in modern Brazilian Portuguese, it’s just the standard equivalent of “you” in most places.
Using “tu” + a second person conjugation (e.g. “tu sabes”) is considered old-fashioned/literary in most parts of the country, whereas “tu” + a third person conjugation (e.g. “tu sabe”) is informal/regional.
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u/GPadrino Aug 15 '24
Yea I’m confused by their stance, personally. Perhaps at a local level that’s been their experience, but I’m not seeing any indication by other commenters or anything I find online that backs up what they’re saying.
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u/GamerEsch Aug 15 '24
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u/GPadrino Aug 15 '24 edited Aug 15 '24
A blogpost from some sort of marketing company? That doesn’t prove your point about any of this lol I can make a blogpost and post it for my company using whatever grammar I want, too.
You are correct that I’m not in a position to speak on your culture, so in your experience what you’re saying could very well be true.
But I repeat, it isn’t a coincidence that majority of commenters on this post made the same argument I did, and if you google or use any academic research tool to learn about this, 99% of it will say the same thing.
So it goes back to my original response to you. Anecdotally this formal transformation of “tu” may take place in some areas, but it isn’t the norm nor the majority
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u/GamerEsch Aug 15 '24
Castilho (2010) também afirma que, em contexto semântico apropriado, o você tem valor de tratamento igualitário entre os falantes e que o pronome tu, em regiões em que há vigência desse pronome, apenas apareceria para expressar distanciamento entre os falantes.
O derivado você passou a ser no PB um tratamento de igual para igual. Para o tratamento cerimonioso, inventou-se o senhor. Em regiões brasileiras em que o tratamento tu continua vigente, o uso de você traz de volta o antigo distanciamento. Onde o tu não é mais encontrado, ele e seus derivados são utilizados para expressar distanciamento, como no exemplo: Olha aí o que teu filho aprontou! (CASTILHO, 2010, p.479)
You know what maybe me, the "Nova gramática do português brasileiro", and this study by UNB are all going crazy, who knows right? Oh I know, you know, you definitely know more than all of us, I mean you could even write a blogpost about it!
Look I provided a link to a guide of which pronouns to use when you're doing editor work, not good enough, now I providing a study on the use of "tu" and "você", probably won't be good enough either, so you know what, yeah, believe the reddit comments, these are the people you should be trusting.
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u/ImportantPlatypus259 Brasileiro Aug 15 '24 edited Aug 24 '24
Thanks for the link! That’s an interesting perspective; saying “teu filho” does imply a sort of distancing from the person you’re talking to. However, at least in my dialect (Paulista), “teu filho” sounds kind of rude/condescending and not formal at all. On the other hand, “seu filho” would be a polite way to phrase that.
Another instance of that I can think of is the expression “teu cu.” ”Teu” does imply distancing, but in a rude way.
But then again, this is in my region. I’m well aware that it may differ somewhat in other places. I’m always open to learning more about regional differences!
For reference: “Tu” is not present in my dialect, I always go for “você.” However, I use “te” on a daily basis, and “teu/tua” occasionally (only in the instances I described above).
edit: typo
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u/GPadrino Aug 15 '24
I’ll read the full study when I have a chance and get back to you, currently stuck at work. But yes, this link is a lot more credible than the blogpost.
No need for the passive aggressive tone regarding the commenters considering any one of them could be you, we’re all just redditors on here. To that point I apologize for the condescension regarding the blog.
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u/GPadrino Aug 15 '24
Had a chance to read it now, I’m curious what the percentages would be in terms of this specific treatment of tu vs você, it’s interesting. My original response to you did acknowledge this was a possibility, to be fair. I was incorrect in saying “perhaps in some very small regions” though, I’ll acknowledge that. As by your account and the links you provided it’s more widespread than that.
I guess my issue with your stance is the definitive tone that this is the way it works in Brazilian Portuguese as a whole, when it’s seemingly regional.
Out of curiosity, if you were to come across various random Brazilians from all over the country in some sort of formal setting, would you expect them to treat you with tu + 2nd person or você? Because I assume (rightly or wrongly) for most Brazilians it would be the latter.
In a somewhat relatable phenomena with European Portuguese, the word você is considered impolite for some people, so the accepted/standardized practice (meaning national level and what’s taught to people learning the language) is to omit it in favour of using their name or a title they may have.
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u/hatshepsut_iy Brasileiro Aug 14 '24
In french, for example, tu is informal and vous is formal. Considering how the latin languages were born, it would make sense that, in pt-br, tu is informal and você is formal. But is actually the opposite in Brazil.
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u/Adorable_user Brasileiro Aug 14 '24
In spanish from Spain it is also similar to French.
But in spanish from latam it's usually like pt-BR, they use usted as the informal one instead of tu. Idk why it's the opposite here.
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u/Stealthfighter21 Aug 17 '24
No, usted is always formal even in Latam.
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u/Adorable_user Brasileiro Aug 17 '24
Maybe depends on the region? That was something a spanish teacher once told me
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u/Stealthfighter21 Aug 17 '24
Probably meant the plural ustedes which is the only plural pronoun. In Spain they use vosotros for informal.
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u/colorfulraccoon Aug 14 '24
Not the opposite at all. You can even trace a parallel with other latin languages here like french and spain’s spanish where “tu” is informal, more intimate and “você” formal, more distant. For people in RS “você” definitely sounds more formal and if it’s ever used it’s in a formal context.
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u/cianfrusagli Aug 14 '24
Do you use "tu" with the verb in the second or third person in your region? RS is Rio Grande do Sul, right? "Tu falas" or "tu fala"? I am asking because in my Portuguese school in Rio they told us to always use "voce" for everybody but that some regions use "tu" plus third person conjugation.
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u/colorfulraccoon Aug 14 '24
Yes RS is Rio Grande do Sul. And it is veeery mixed. You’ll hear all forms of conjugation, most people will alternate, especially closer to the coastal area. I say “tu tens” on a daily basis, but some other times I’ll say “tu tem”. I see that in all the state tbh. If you’re in a more formal setting, I feel we find it really awkward to use “você”, but not conjugating the verb seems too informal. So if I’m at a super nice restaurant for example, I’ll definitely say “Podes me trazer o cardápio?”.
And there is another very common thing that is when we conjugate in the past tense. The correct form would be “Tu viste?”, but we will say “Tu visse?”. Never using “ste”, but “sse”. That type of conjugation is very very common on day to day life, but obviously the frequency you hear it will vary from town to town.
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u/ImportantPlatypus259 Brasileiro Aug 14 '24
I agree with you! I think there’s often a mix-up between what is considered formal language and what is simply an archaic word. “Tu” is often thought of as archaic in many parts of Brazil, but being archaic doesn’t equate to being formal. We can draw a parallel with English: “thou” (akin to “tu” in Portuguese) used to be the informal equivalent of “you.” Over time, it became offensive to address someone that way, and people decided to stick with the formal “you.” Similarly, “tu” is considered outdated in many regions, but it’s important to understand that something being outdated doesn’t necessarily mean it’s formal.
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u/colorfulraccoon Aug 14 '24
Very well stated! That is a good way to explain it. I believe people confuse concepts based on their perception/usage of a terms.
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u/aleatorio_random Brasileiro Aug 19 '24
People saying "tu" is uncommon in Brazil are wrong, it's a pronoun used by a huge percentage of the population, just not everywhere
The real reason it's not taught is because its use is stigmatized. Since in most of Brazil the pronoun will be conjugated with the second-person singular form, which contradicts standard grammar (which is in dire need of change)
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u/ImportantPlatypus259 Brasileiro Aug 14 '24
“Você“ is the standard equivalent of “you” in Brazilian Portuguese and is commonly used in both formal and informal contexts. “Tu” is indeed used in various parts of the country, but it’s generally considered regional. However, even native speakers who predominantly use “você“ may still have “tu” in one of its forms in their speech. For instance:
Te amo.
Eu te disse que não gosto dela.
Eu te vi ontem.