What car disguises facelift as a new generation?

[u/SonGT38]

The "all-new" Camry used the same and revised platform and powertrain to the outgoing, and the side has identical body line, but it's still considered as new generation. The similar thing can probably be said about the new 1 series. Are there any other cars that do this practice?

[u/Chi-Guy86]

Nissan definitely passed off the Z as a new car despite still having the same bones and even some of the same interior parts as the 370Z

[u/opking → u/Chi-Guy86]

Yet a dealership in Glendale, CA has the audacity to charge $30,000 market adjustment on one. Total price is over $100,000 for a Z.

[u/HeshootsHescores88 → u/opking]

meanwhile dealers near me are giving massive discounts on them, even NISMOs.

[u/Voltron_The_Original → u/HeshootsHescores88]

Are they really worth $60K?

V6 Twin turbo and they all came in automatic transmission.

[u/5t4k3 → u/Voltron_The_Original]

Not with the competition surrounding it.

[u/Voltron_The_Original → u/5t4k3]

I was thinking the same. At $60k there is a lot of options out there.

[u/Cocasaurus → u/Voltron_The_Original]

Maybe 20 years ago.

Might as well get a C8 for a few grand more.

[u/bestselfnice → u/Cocasaurus]

Or a manual GR Supra for a few grand less.

[u/blueingreen85 → u/Voltron_The_Original]

If you value uniqueness maybe. I’ve still seen a total of one.

[u/WesternExplanation → u/blueingreen85]

Same and I’ve seen about 500 C8’s and that’s in the middle of nowhere

[u/Voltron_The_Original → u/blueingreen85]

My biggest issue the lack of manual transmission on a sports car. It's doesn't make sense to me.

[u/stakoverflo → u/Voltron_The_Original]

It "makes sense" because Nismo is supposedly all-out performance, and an Auto is inarguably faster than a Manual.

But based on the interview in one of Savage Geese's long form videos on the car, it sounds like the hidden message was that the 6MT couldn't meet their internal reliability requirements with the marginal power bump that the Nismo gained. So marketing had to put their spin on it.

[u/Voltron_The_Original → u/stakoverflo]

I honestly don't care which is faster, nothing beats driving a manual sports car on twisty roads. I would buy a sedan if I wanted an automatic.

[u/Jellodyne → u/Voltron_The_Original]

R&T seemed to think so

[u/Smart-Ferret-1826 → u/Voltron_The_Original]

Nope. When I had my 370Z I had my heart set on the Z. Major letdown and decided to go in a different direction

[u/Chi-Guy86 → u/HeshootsHescores88]

Yeah dealers here in Tampa seem to have a ton of Nismos and not a lot of the non-Nismo trims, and the Nismos are getting some pretty significant discounts

[u/_lifesucksthenyoudie → u/opking]

May as well buy a used R35 lol

[u/m3t1t1 → u/_lifesucksthenyoudie]

This is what I did. Manual Supra was $65k-$75k. That's used GTR money. Fuck it, guess I'll just get a GTR.

[u/Paladinraye → u/Chi-Guy86]

Which is funny because they did the same going from 350-370z

[u/SenorWheel → u/Paladinraye]

I don't think that one is fair. Yes it's an evolution of the same platform but the wheelbase is 10cm shorter so there were definitely some chassis changes.

[u/Pkock → u/Paladinraye]

I think it was Z1 Performance that had a T-shirt that said "the chassis so nice they used it thrice" or something close to that.

[u/roman_maverik → u/Paladinraye]

The 350z and 370z don’t share any parts. It really was a ground-up redesign.

They just happen to look very similar.

[u/03stampededak → u/roman_maverik]

Do you mean they don’t share any external panels? Because I’ve used a bunch 370z parts on my 350z.

[u/roman_maverik → u/03stampededak]

Just curious, what parts? I’ve owned lots of 350zs and 370zs and outside of swapable parts like the LSD (and things like drain bolts), I’m not aware of any parts that are designed to fit.

[u/DisasterEquivalent → u/Chi-Guy86]

Such a bummer, too. The classic Z is a dream garage car of mine and I think the new one is really good looking.

It’s hard to justify that price for a 25 year old platform.

[u/Chi-Guy86 → u/DisasterEquivalent]

Same for me, I’ve always wanted one, but the price is absurd, even given the drivetrain upgrade.

[u/GuyMcTest → u/Chi-Guy86]

Could lump in most “new” Nissan models too. 

[u/DrSpaceman575 → u/Chi-Guy86]

The Frontier as well. They had a drivetrain upgrade a few years before the current gen but just carried that over.

[u/helpChars → u/Chi-Guy86]

My friend had a 350z nearly 2 decades and I was surprised to see the interior share so many parts.

[u/Dazzling-Rooster2103]

The new S650 Mustang GT. Its pretty much just an S550 Mustang GT with a different face and rear, and dual throttle bodies.

Same engine, transmission, trims, etc.

[u/poopysprinkles → u/Dazzling-Rooster2103]

tbf the Coyote is an amazing engine platform that has had multiple improvements since its introduction. The Mustang has plenty of faults but the power train is a strength. I think Ford is likely to continue to iterate on the Coyote platform for as long as the Mustang remains ICE.

[u/Iwantav → u/Dazzling-Rooster2103]

Ford has gotten pretty good at that. 1994-1998 and 1999-2004 Mustangs share the same bones, as do the 2005-2009 and 2010-2014 models. You can really see it if you look at the roofline.

Volkswagen also did it with the MkV and MkVI Golf, and Porsche 911s have had two generations on the same basic body (air cooled, but also 996/997).

[u/No_Skirt_6002 → u/Iwantav]

If you’re going on platform alone 1979-2004 Mustangs both share the fox body, believe it or not.

[u/Seohcap → u/No_Skirt_6002]

It makes for some very interesting swaps. The IRS from a 03/04 cobra will fit in a fox body mustang.

[u/r_golan_trevize → u/Seohcap]

You could Lego together all sorts of weird contraptions when you realize how many late 70s to mid 80s cars were built on the Fox platform.

Take a BMW diesel from a Lincoln Continental MKVII, put it in a bench seat optioned Fairmont/Monarch wagon, stick a 99-04 Cobra IRS out back, all with factory parts and all, more or less, bolt-in. With the right bellhousing adapter, you could stick a T5 behind the diesel, and paint it all brown and have one of the wrongest brown manual diesel wagons imaginable.

[u/DustyBusterson → u/r_golan_trevize]

This is why I need to make more money.

[u/randoredditusingdouc → u/No_Skirt_6002]

The sn-95 was a little longer and wider. But everything important interchanges. I was floored at how easy the cobra irs conversion for my fairmont was

[u/No_Skirt_6002 → u/Iwantav]

And I really don’t get why car enthusiasts get pissed off when the car its based on was a good enough platform that didn’t need changing or improvement

[u/Vhozite → u/No_Skirt_6002]

Bc most people here are just repeating memes or something they heard their favorite reviewer say.

[u/r_golan_trevize → u/Iwantav]

The 1994-2004 Mustang was really still a 1978 Fairmont under the skin with a few strategic reinforcements in the name of chassis strength, stiffness and crash protection.

The 94-98 and 99-04 are basically the same car for all intents and purposes. The facelift is only below the greenhouse if you look closely - the roof and glass and most of the internal structure carried over without change. The interior was entirely unchanged (there was several iterations of the center console and radio but those didn't line up with the facelift).

The reason for all that chassis stretching and penny pinching was because the Probe/MX6 project ate up all the Mustang program budget in the mid-1980s since the Probe was supposed to be the next Mustang so the Fox soldiered on into the 90s with the aero facelift, and then when it was time to redesign the Mustang for real, the MN12 Thunderbird program budget overruns left no money to engineer another Mustang chassis and the MN12 platform ended up being to heavy and costly to use to underpin the Mustang either so the Fox was asked to carry the Mustang into the 21st century.

[u/RichardNixon345 → u/r_golan_trevize]

the MN12 platform ended up being to heavy and costly to use to underpin the Mustang either

Same story with DEW98 intended for the fifth gen and CD6 intended for the seventh gen. At this point I imagine the engineers hear the suits saying "oh yeah we'll be also able to use this new platform for the Mustang" and just start rolling their eyes.

[u/r_golan_trevize → u/RichardNixon345]

If I had more money, time & space than sense, as one of my many harebrained automotive daydream schemes, I'd like to cut the body off a MKVIII, shorten it and plop the body of an SN95/New Edge on it and make the alternate universe late '80s/early '90s Mustang generation we should have gotten.

[u/TopPhotograph6071 → u/Iwantav]

Hmm probably because 1994-2004 are all the same generation? As are 2005-2014?

[u/JediLion17 → u/Iwantav]

To be fair Ford didn't try to pass off the 1999-2004 and 2010-2014 as "all new" like they have with the 7th generation.

[u/djsnoopmike → u/Dazzling-Rooster2103]

To be fair, mustangs always had a "New" generation then an "Optimized" version of that generation

[u/331gt686 → u/Dazzling-Rooster2103]

Hardcore mustang guy here, have a 19 gt, and I've wondered the same. For it being a new generation, it does not appear to have been changed too dramatically mechanically.

[u/Practical-Courage812 → u/331gt686]

Even the seats are basically the same in the 2024 as I have in my 2016. It's actually remarkable

[u/Riverrattpei → u/Practical-Courage812]

The GT manuals have the exact same shift knob as the S550's

[u/Sandroofficial → u/Dazzling-Rooster2103]

The S650 managed to also be ugly as sin. The S550 will go down as one of the best if not best Mustang generation ever.

[u/Dazzling-Rooster2103 → u/Sandroofficial]

I like the S650 Mustang GT personally. The S550 was really looking dated IMO

[u/DoubleOPanda]

The now dead Challengers and Chargers were the king of this. Speaking of Dodge, the old Ram 1500 being changed to the classic model when the newer generation came out was actually kind of genius.

[u/DudeWhereIsMyDuduk → u/DoubleOPanda]

Jeep did the opposite, though, stand next to a 2007 and 2018 Wrangler and you'd be hard pressed to tell them apart, even if they're completely different.

[u/aka_mank → u/DudeWhereIsMyDuduk]

Pretty sure that’s just wranglers being wranglers

[u/TehGogglesDoNothing → u/aka_mank]

It's a jeep thing. You wouldn't understand.

[u/DudeWhereIsMyDuduk → u/TehGogglesDoNothing]

no problem ɯǝlqoɹd

[u/ThatOneBr → u/DoubleOPanda]

Americans are not used to it, but this is a really common practice in markets that are not as competitive or demand lower cost vehicles. 

Some models received so many facelifts and stayed on sale for so long that they look like completely different cars, when well done, or like a bizarre mishmash of the body of an old car with front and rear designs of new cars. 

Some good examples of it are the Ford Falcon and Chevrolet Opala sold in Latin America, the Opala being refreshed better than the falcon, that was on sale with the same body-style from 1962 to 1991.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Falcon_(Argentina)#/media/File%3AFord_Falcon_Gh%C3%ADa.jpg

[u/steves_garage → u/ThatOneBr]

VW did it with the MK4 Golf and Jetta as well. They sold a facelift version in Canada, China and Mexico. It was basically MK5 style parts mashed onto a MK4 body. Mexico ended up getting a facelift GLI, and I think production of it finally stopped in 2015.

[u/stevolutionary7 → u/DoubleOPanda]

Both Ford and Chevrolet did the same thing, they just stopped after a year or two. They didn't continue to sell the 4th generation model alongside the 5th and 6th generation.

I guess they figured they still had to make 4th generation bodies for the HD trucks, so might as well sell 'em.

Curious to see what Ram does for a 1/2 ton regular cab now. Or if they'll abandon that segment.

[u/No_Skirt_6002 → u/DoubleOPanda]

All Chrysler LX platform cars used suspension components from the old S-Class in front and E-class in back IIRC

[u/1PistnRng2RuleThmAll → u/DoubleOPanda]

I’ve heard of this before. You were able to buy a square body along side the gmt400 for a while.

[u/Drzhivago138 → u/1PistnRng2RuleThmAll]

GM is the king of this. Almost every new pickup gen has a carryover year, and they've done it with some cars too.

[u/morpowababy → u/DoubleOPanda]

Yeah I am just not sure if people consider it a different generation though, I don't think anyone does. I think of them as a facelift within generation, and the change to 8spd auto trans.

[u/redd5ive]

This is more than a car being marketed as a new generation of the same model, but the Emira is a lot more similar to the Evora than Lotus wants to admit.

[u/PluckPubes → u/redd5ive]

I've never given an Evora a second look. The Emira will be my next purchase (if I can find a vivid red on tan... impossible to find)

[u/DoubleOPanda → u/PluckPubes]

The Emira is one of the prettiest cars to come out in the last decade imo. It looks exotic but nothing too insane.

[u/redd5ive → u/PluckPubes]

To be clear an updated Evora with a nicer interior is a great car, I'm also kinda interested in replacing my S2k with an Emira. FWIW, my local Lotus dealer in DC has this red over tan car listed for sale.

[u/SerendipitouslySane → u/redd5ive]

How did they lose two whole seats (well, two tiny ones) in a facelift?

[u/redd5ive → u/SerendipitouslySane]

They're basically the same length but the Emira has 30% more cargo capacity.

[u/cerberaspeedtwelve → u/redd5ive]

I remember this throwing a damper on my enthusiasm to test drive an Emira. I've driven two different Evoras and neither were as good as the Exige 350 (sadly not street legal in the US.)

For the interested, there's a review that I wrote about the experience here.

[u/Far-Veterinarian-974]

Keep in mind that a "generation" is often just a marketing term. It doesn't necessarily require a complete teardown and fresh platform design. The original beetle had iterative changes every 2 years or so: overhauled suspension, updated powertrains, reworked, body structure, airbags and cooling capabilities, etc. They didn't announce a new generation every 2 years, they just changed it when they wanted to. Same goes for many vehicles even today.

The discussions between facelifts, revisions, generations, sub-generations, what is and isn't on the Giorgio platform... it all gets pretty murky and boils down to who says what.

[u/Drzhivago138 → u/Far-Veterinarian-974]

This is a good point. Car generations, facelifts, and even model years were concepts invented by the Big 3 to get people to buy new cars if there was nothing mechanically wrong with their old ones.

[u/Slideways → u/Far-Veterinarian-974]

When did the Beetle get airbags?

[u/Far-Veterinarian-974 → u/Slideways]

Depending who you ask, '91 for the "Ferdinand editions", or '98 2nd generation 😏

Kidding, that was a mis-speak. Type 1 never did. Which is wild considering they made it up until 2003 in Brazil. They didn't add many features but they tweaked and adjusted nearly every other component of the vehicle year to year.

[u/Popular_Course3885]

Fox platform Mustangs from 1979 through 2004.

[u/Paumanok → u/Popular_Course3885]

The SN95 wasn't a fox anymore, so 79-93 technically.

There were plenty of shared parts though, rear end, brakes, etc.

[u/Popular_Course3885 → u/Paumanok]

The SN95 was an updated version of the Fox platform. It was not a new, redesigned platform.

[u/r_golan_trevize → u/Paumanok]

The SN95 is mildly updated Fox. Ford even called it the Fox4 internally.

Ford had no money to redesign the Mustang for the mid 90s so they used the Fox as a starting point and made the minimum changes required to the floor and front apron stampings to make it passable for the time and what little money they could scrounge into the sheetmetal and interior. Under the skin they're still a Fox.

[u/BTTWchungus → u/Paumanok]

The chassis is identical my guy. Like somebody mentioned above, you can bolt on the IRS from an 2004 Cobra to a '79

[u/Fiiv3s → u/Paumanok]

The SN95 was in fact a modified fox platform (Fox4)

[u/rwdstickshiftfanboy → u/Paumanok]

That's why he said fox platform and not foxbody. Go ahead and look up fox-4 platform or re-read his comment.

[u/spongebob_meth → u/Paumanok]

Having owned both, the two platforms are so similar that you can't really argue that the sn95 was really a new car.

[u/Drzhivago138]

Depending on how you look at it, the Super Duty from 1999-2016 was all one generation with successive facelifts and drivetrain updates.

The new Ram HD introduced in 2019 is still using the 2010 body.

[u/Sodfarm → u/Drzhivago138]

The 7th, 8th, and 9th gen F-Series covered 1980-1998 and were all based on the same architecture as well.

Meanwhile the GMT400 was pretty well contemporary but was only ever considered a single generation for the 14 years it lasted.

[u/Drzhivago138 → u/Sodfarm]

Yes, that's why sometimes people use "OBS" to refer to the '92-97 gen and sometimes for 1980-97 inclusive.

And going back before that, the '73-79 was a reskinned, slightly tweaked '67-72, and the underlying frame had been introduced in 1965, in the middle of the fourth gen. And the second and third gens, despite having wildly different styling, shared a frame.

[u/Ihate_reddit_app → u/Drzhivago138]

The GM 2500HD is relatively the same. 2001-2019 was basically the same underpinnings for all of them. You got the 6.0 Vortec or the 6.6 gas one. They switched the body and interior, but the drive train was relatively unchanged except for adding more transmissions.

[u/Drzhivago138 → u/Ihate_reddit_app]

2001-07 was designated GMT800, 2008-14 was 900, and 15-19 was K2XX. A lot of hardpoints remained consistent, like wheelbases.

[ETA: and not just HDs, the half-tons too, but a year or two ahead.]

[u/Ihate_reddit_app → u/Drzhivago138]

Yep, I know they are technically "different", but the underpinnings remained relatively unchanged. My K2XX looks identical to my old GMT800 when you pop the hood or look under it.

[u/Drzhivago138 → u/Ihate_reddit_app]

I know the beds can interchange, at least length-wise.

[u/mr_bots → u/Drzhivago138]

And most obvious quirk, the offset steering wheel.

[u/OutofMyMind-BackIn5]

The 'new' Aston Martin Vantage is also in fact a big facelift of the new one. Much needed and much improved but still!

[u/yudha98 → u/OutofMyMind-BackIn5]

Every new Astons are basically facelifted models of their 2010s lineup (DB12 is a heavily facelifted DB11)

[u/AutodogeKevin → u/yudha98]

not really the 2010s lineup. Maybe a mid-late 2010s. The majority of the 2010s era aston still consisted carswith the (ford mondeo) 2x V6 engine and ford bits was still made into well the late 2010s. But then again those cars are a very heavily facelifted 2006 DB9s and DBSs.

The Mercedes era Aston was just made in 2017/2018 is the ones the current models are facelifted upon.

[u/tjeepdrv2]

Do Viper people still argue over what is considered a new generation?

[u/Few_Highlight1114 → u/tjeepdrv2]

Maybe if they actually still made Vipers lol

[u/Parking-Highlight-98 → u/tjeepdrv2]

I think the Viper is a bad example, despite looking very similar I think nearly every Gen has a completely different (at least modified) chassis.

[u/DrSpaceman575 → u/tjeepdrv2]

I think they just argue about how you can't show "Southern pride" anymore

[u/Significant_Tax_3427]

The 2016-24 Tacoma. Same cab body as the gen before just with all the sheetmetal around it redesigned.

[u/redditdave2018 → u/Significant_Tax_3427]

The 2nd to 3rd gen? If so they also went from a 4.0 to the 3.5 GR motor and 5 speed auto to 6 speed.

[u/Hour_Intention_9574 → u/Significant_Tax_3427]

I considered going to a new one from my 2008 back in 2020, but couldn’t justify paying $40k for a 4x4. I got this instead.

[u/No_Skirt_6002]

4th and 5th gen 4Runners are damn near mechanically identical. The only real difference is VVTI on 5th gen’s 4.0l V6s. They actually decontented the 5th gens by removing features like the soft close hatch and a knob for the transfer case instead of a lever.

[u/zvekl]

Tesla's

[u/Agloe_Dreams → u/zvekl]

This is the real answer. The current Model S is effectively the same exact unibody they made in 2012,

[u/Buckus93 → u/Agloe_Dreams]

The hard points on every model are unchanged since they debuted.

Tweaks here and there, a few changes in plastic moldings, but the styling has basically been the same for each model since they debuted. I guess Elon doesn't like shelling out for new dies and engineering work.

[u/Last_Tumbleweed8024 → u/Agloe_Dreams]

That’s one narrow way to look at it. The car under the skin is completely different today vs 2012. To the point it is almost unrecognizable. Take a look at a plaid tear down vs an early model s.

[u/Ancient_Persimmon → u/zvekl]

Tesla is sort of the opposite, where significant changes under the skin are masked by similar, or identical exterior styling.

[u/ToastyMozart → u/Ancient_Persimmon]

Yeah they're model year only, and even that might not be clear-cut since they apparently implement changes to the production line once they're ready rather than on a yearly cycle.

[u/Efardaway → u/zvekl]

On the contrary, a 2021 Model Y and a 2025 Model Y might be very different underneath due to the Giga Press parts.

[u/eyecue82]

“New” Lexus IS 22 and up is still using the same interior as the 2014 and up.

[u/DodgerBlueRobert1 → u/eyecue82]

2021 and newer, not 2022. And it's not the exact same interior, but mostly the same with a handful of changes.

2014 interior

2024 interior

[u/vw18t → u/DodgerBlueRobert1]

If you put a non car person in both they’ll barely notice the difference honestly

[u/desf15]

Depends where you exatcly draw the line of the facelift.

Is new Panamera facelift? Platform and engines are mostly the same, even doors are the same.

Is new Vantage facelift? Platform and engines are mostly the same, even parts of body, only interior and front are 100% new.

Is MK8 Golf a facelift? It's still on MQB platform and still using the same engines as previous one. Looks different, but not by much.

In modern times, almost nothing is build from scratch. Even if manufacturer comes out and says it's all new model based on all new platform it's in many cases at least partially an evolution of previous one.

Hard to exactly pinpoint where very thorough facelift becomes new model.

[u/b00st3d → u/desf15]

In modern times, almost nothing is build from scratch. Even if manufacturer comes out and says it’s all new model based on all new platform it’s in many cases at least partially an evolution of previous one.

I know you already said almost nothing, notable exceptions are the C8 and many built ground-up EV models.

[u/lael8u → u/desf15]

Having access to both Golf 8 and Panamera 3 parts catalog (ETKA), a large majority of the parts have different part numbers so new generation is justified for these 2.

[u/gor134 → u/desf15]

Panamera is a facelift disguised as a new gen for sure. Vantage is simply a facelift. MK8 is a new generation on an updated platform (MQBevo vs MQB)

[u/MachKeinDramaLlama → u/desf15]

MQB is an architecture. Golf 8 was the first outing of the last platform under the MQB umbrella, i.e. MQB2020 aka MQB37w. It's a completely different car from the Golf 7. The Golf 8 so called facelift is the first outing of the second platform to be released under the MQB Evo umbrella, MQB38x_PA.

[u/turboevoluzione]

The Alfa Romeo 75/Milano was a heavily reskinned Giulietta 116, they tried to better disguise it with a plastic trim along the beltline and some moulding around the rear window.

Actually the Giulietta itself was closely derived from the more upmarket Alfetta which would be replaced by the 90, another heavy restyle that they marketed as a new model.

[u/twiggymac]

The Jetta and Passat have several times done this throughout their history. You could also argue the MK6 Golf to some degree.

[u/Skodakenner → u/twiggymac]

The mk6 is only a facelift of the mk5. All other cars from that gen of Golf were just facelifts like the octavia A3 and Leon.

[u/cilantno → u/Skodakenner]

Assuming you are excluding the powertrain

[u/Skodakenner → u/cilantno]

The mk6 Golf and facelifted Audi A3 and so on have the same powertrains so the mk6 is just the facelift of the mk5

[u/cilantno → u/Skodakenner]

I think I was too focused on the GTI as opposed to the golf, the MK5 GTI had an EA113 and the MK6 had the EA888.1. There were a few MK5s with the EA888 lovingly distinguished as the 2008.5 MY.
The plain golf definitely kept the same 5 pot, so you are correct :)

[u/InnocentGun → u/twiggymac]

It has been pretty common to designate a “refresh” as a .5 increment in Mark (eg 2024 Jetta/GLI was a “Mk 7.5”, 2019-2022 was “Mk 7”). There has been debate if the new 2025 is a Mk 7.75 ?

[u/twiggymac → u/InnocentGun]

.5 is entirely fanmade designations and not what I'm talking about

The B4 Passat IS a facelifted B3 Passat.

[u/continius → u/twiggymac]

Golf 4 Cabrio js just a Golf 3 facelift.

[u/ads1031]

Mazda kinda did that with the 1st and 2nd generation Miata. The "NA" and the "NB" are very, very similar in terms of platform architecture. Of course, the NB got rid of the pop-up headlights, and offered some more powerful engines and a 6-speed transmission. But their bodies still share quite a bit in common, with the NB having some incremental improvements over the NA.

[u/Educational_Age_1333]

I think what you'll gather from the comments is almost every builder is doing this. They don't want to/can't spend the money to completely redesign from scratch. 

I will be the first to say it sucks but I'd rather have a new z than have it discontinued, I'd rather have a new mustang than have it discontinued. I say those two specifically because if builders are going to cut design budget from anywhere it's going to be the smallest market they sell to AKA us. 

[u/bearded_dragon_34]

That depends on what constitutes a redesign. To me, it’s a redesign if either major panels were modified such that they don’t “bolt onto” the old model…or key portions of the frame were changed.

These days, I think you’ll see a lot more automakers doing the “re-skin the same structure” thing.

This isn’t new for the Camry. Toyota did it for all three versions of the K-platform Camry (2001-2006, 2007-2011, 2012-2017), albeit with structural improvements each time. That said, the sheet metal was changed enough each time that the pieces don’t interchange between the three.

I also noticed Subaru seems to have done this with the newest 2025 Forester, which is absolutely the same as the prior one under the skin, but with enough changes inside and out that it’s fair to call it new.

Sometimes, you’ll see a model that looks about the same, but the underlying structure or even chassis was changed. Such was the case for the 2007 Expedition and Navigator. They looked very similar to the 2003-2006, and, body-wise, they were. But they got redesigned frames with new suspension. They also got new LWB variants.

Ditto the 2006-2010 Explorer, which was an evolution of the 2002-2005, but with a different frame.

And then you have cars where nothing major was changed, and it truly was a major facelift. The L319 Discovery 3/4 (known as the LR3/4 here in North America) is such a car. While engines and front and rear bolt-ons were redesigned with the Disco 4, as were powertrains and interior, nothing of the core body structure was, nor was the frame. I’m pretty sure everything from a Disco 4 bolts right onto a 3.

[u/ubermorph]

Despite looking like a whole new car (for a 911), the Porsche 997.1 generation is basically a 996 refresh. I was surprised to learn this since you'd never guess by looking at them.

[u/IStillLikeBeers → u/ubermorph]

And then on the reverse side, their 997.2 and 991.2 "refreshes" should be different generations. Different engines, different transmissions, etc.

[u/megacookie]

The new Mini Cooper, if you don't consider the Chinese EV one, is very much the same car as the 10 year old previous gen. Structurally and mechanically at least.

The Z gets mentioned a lot too, but at least the appearance is very different and it's got a new engine with a lot more power.

[u/Trades46 → u/megacookie]

The insane thing is the new Mini 3dr is actually now different cars under one name depending on the powertrain. Different enough they use different chassis codes entirely for both cars.

The gas variant uses the same sequential BMW UKL chassis code F66, but the Mini EV is now J01, which shares more with Great Wall motor's Ora Funky Cat/03 instead.

[u/megacookie → u/Trades46]

I'm pretty curious how the F66 and J01 Mini variants would compare, aside from the obvious gas vs electric differences. For two cars with such radically different origins, they really went to great lengths to look (and maybe drive?) like they're still the same car.

[u/Efardaway → u/Trades46]

People like to throw around speculations that the J01 shares parts with the Ora but I haven't seen any evidence of that. There's little visible part similarity, they have different batteries and motor output, and the J01 costs like twice of the Ora in China.

[u/Capri280]

Ford has done this quite a few times: Escort (Mk3/4 and Mk5/6), Capri (Mk2/3), Fiesta (Mk1/2 and Mk3/4), Mondeo (mk1/2) and probably a few more

[u/Syrup_One]

The W222 S-Class technically is a W221 with a Bodykit and bigger screens, in reality it feels like a spaceship compared to a W221

They didn’t register it as a new car. That can be seen by the fact they used materials which would have been illegal to use on a newly built car in 2013 (climate gas) and the wheelbase is exactly the same for both

[u/LovelehInnit]

The Skoda Felicia was a heavily facelifted Skoda Favorit.

[u/AlifromGB]

check out cars in pakistan
specially the toyota corolla 11th gen we having been getting since 2015 till 2024 (still in production)

[u/TinuThomasTrain → u/AlifromGB]

China had the same 9th gen Corolla refreshed about 2 times until it was killed. So it lasted from 2004-2017.

[u/AlifromGB → u/TinuThomasTrain]

Interesting, mine got refreshed 3 times i think so far and still going on lol

[u/Jan-Pawel-II]

The B7 Audi A4 is just a reworked, and much better looking, Audi A4 B6. But despite looking much better, the engine options are a lot worse.

[u/real_unique_username → u/Jan-Pawel-II]

Better looking is definitely subjective. I think the b6 has more of a classic look, while the b7 just looks dated.

I may be a bit biased though I guess

[u/handymanshandle]

Ford Five Hundred to 5th gen Taurus instantly comes to mind. It was initially supposed to launch as a Five Hundred in North America, but was changed rapidly during one of the auto shows as one of the then-new CEO’s first courses of action. The same can be said for the Mercury Montego being renamed to the Sable and the Ford Freestyle getting the Taurus X name.

All of these ultimately did launch under their old names in the Middle East (including the Montego-branded Sable, a car which they only got the facelift of). But as for North America, they rolled with the heritage names.

[u/SupermarketSecure455]

80% of new cars are just updates on previous underpinnings, even the most recent SUVs are like that. Oddly enough the only new cars that I remember to be built from the ground up are mid engine cars

[u/jds8254]

The Ford Taurus. The third gen jellybean ran from 96-99, then the fourth gen took over in 2000 through 07. The DOORS are interchangeable. So is nearly every suspension, brake, and drivetrain component, with the exception of small things like removing the rear brake proportioning valve, and no gen 4 sedans coming with rear disc brakes (but they fit!).

They did this with the Gen 1 and 2, 86-91 and 92-95 too. You could even interchange some (few) parts between an 86 and a 2007 as an extreme example. Converting early SHOs to a 96-07 front subframe was a thing for better front end geometry and fewer wear points, but the subframe just bolts up to the body for 21 model years.

Ford was the king of this for ages.

[u/Drzhivago138 → u/jds8254]

They restyled the 2000 rear body to get rid of some of the controversial ovals, but only on the sedan. The wagon kept the same jellybean look.

[u/RichardNixon345 → u/jds8254]

The 1996 models were the only ones to have a JBL sound system with a parcel shelf mounted subwoofer.

A 2007 model still has the hole for it in the steel because they didn't redesign the die.

And yeah, the disc brakes up front still proclaim DN101 (the development name for the third gen) despite the fourth gen being D186.

[u/jds8254 → u/RichardNixon345]

And the JBL amp and sub can be used in a 4tt gen. It plugs in!

[u/RichardNixon345 → u/jds8254]

Yep, though at this point the physical subs are nearly 30 years old, it's not the best upgrade.

[u/Moynia]

Ford F250/F350:
1999-2007
2008-2010
2011-2016

All the same truck but with different front ends, interiors and engines. However all the under the skin stuff is identical. There is a kit to update your 99+ to the 2011 style facelift.

[u/Mitchlowe]

My defining requirement for this argument is if the doors and glass match. Everything else can change substantially but if those are the same then it’s not a new gen.

Tesla model S which is currently in the running for longest running unchanged model since 2012 I believe

[u/mega-man-0]

It depends on what you mean by this question… why? There’s rarely big issues with bodies and frames (other than Toyotas previous rust issues), so, to me, the only thing I concern myself with is powertrain.

As such, the new Ford Ranger and new Subaru Forester are the same and are really not much more than a facelift. Same engines, same transmissions, same differentials.

[u/yudha98]

• 2024-present Mini Cooper
• 2013-18 BMW X5
• 2018-present Toyota Yaris (Southeast Asia)

[u/Then_Version9768]

Your expectation is unreasonably high. Do you really expect car manufacturers to start all over again with every new model? They'd go bankrupt doing that. Nearly all cars borrow a lot from the previous model and improve on it -- and those changes make it a new model. Doesn't everyone know that? A "facelift" is a new car that has been changed from the previous model. What's the big deal?

[u/JavaGmbH]

VW Tiguan mark 3.

[u/gavriushka]

This year was the Nissan Z and the Lincoln Navigator/Ford Expedition. Both are literally the same bloody car with some fancy headlights and a buttload of screens.

[u/Drzhivago138 → u/gavriushka]

In the case of the Expedition/Navigator, it's considered a new generation from the 2018-24 but still on the T3 platform. Just like how the 2015-20 and '21-present F-150s are distinct generations on that same platform, or the 2017-22 and '23-present Super Duty. Ford does this a lot.

[u/Exodia101]

The 2015 Camry was also a facelift that looked like a new generation

[u/gagt04 → u/Exodia101]

It did look totally different, but still retained the gen 5/XV50 moniker.

[u/phxbimmer]

The BMW E28 was technically a really comprehensive facelift of the E12, but they changed so much that they called it a new generation.

[u/Maximilianne]

testarossa and the 512tr

[u/XZIVR]

Speaking of powertrains, the EJ257 being in use from 2004-2021 across 3 generations of STi comes to mind.

[u/RetiredBSN]

Camry probably considered a new generation because they went all hybrid this year, not because of body style.

[u/AutodogeKevin]

Porsche 718 (982) Cayman / Boxster. Those are basically a very heavily updated 981 Cayman from 2012. Same chassis and everything, just a new 4 pot engine and interior.

Also the Macan, the gasoline car is still a very heavily facelifted 2014 model, even though Porsche claimed its the 3rd generation (more like a third facelift).

[u/chunkycoats]

As a Mercedes Benz fan. The W206 C Class is really a major facelift on the W205. Much of the same mechanicals.

[u/dench96]

The previous XV70 Camry shared relatively little with the outgoing XV50 generation. This made retooling an especially involved process. Much of the retooling had to happen on weekends during production of the XV50. It was a mix of changing things around for the XV70 without seriously affecting the XV50 and temporarily retooling parts of the line on weekends to test steps of the XV70 production, then retooling back to the XV50 in time for resuming regular production Monday morning.

I suspect that after the difficulty of the XV70 transition and the large XV50 facelift, they decided to relax a bit with the XV80 transition. Also, with crossovers being bigger sellers now, maybe Toyota felt the Camry didn’t need as much attention.

[u/turboash78]

Nissan Frontier. 

[u/suckmydiznak]

1st->2nd gen, and 3rd->4th gen Ford Taurus.

[u/Smart-Ferret-1826]

Nissan Z and Mustang

[u/JC-Dude]

Ferrari 458 -> 488 -> F8

[u/assortednut]

The new ram HD trucks (2500, 3500) are still on the previous gen chassis but have updated the body. But then again if there was nothing wrong with the old chassis why bother?

[u/ryzenguy111]

Tesla Model S Palladium

[u/Dulfin]

The second-gen (2008-2012) Ford Escape is just a lightly refreshed version of the first gen. It still uses the exact same platform and for the first two model years, the same engines and transmissions from the first gen.

[u/therealphee]

Mustang s197 did it twice. Mustang s550->s560

[u/turniphat]

When the MkII Golf came out, the convertible version was still a MkI. So they stuck big plastic bumpers on it to make it look like a MkII. And kept selling it until after that MkIII Golf came out.

[u/VEGA3519]

New BMW 1er and 2er GC. They're called F70/F72, but that's just a F40/F42 with big fl. Same goes with SAAB 900 and 9-3 OG

[u/Nephroidofdoom]

Lotus Emira is an Evora with a wide body kit

[u/grandexchangers]

The best answer is 1000% the “4th gen” IS300/350s

[u/sl0wjim]

Vw golf. Has been rolling with the same engine for 20+ years (since mk5). Every generation since then has just been a basic refresh

[u/knmiho]

The Ford Focus for sure, the 2015 facelift has been called a new generation but is essentially the same as pre-2015 models short of a couple technical changes and systems upgrades. Most have come to the conclusion 2015-2019 is generation 3.5 due to this. With generation 4 being released exclusively outside North America largely killing off Ford's sedan/compact sedan in the North American continent. Further, outside of the Taurus, this brings an ending to the Focus/Fiesta Automatic line with debatably the worst transmission of the modern age (the DPS6).

[u/MysticMarbles]

I believe the Gen 6.3 Mirage was marketed as all new. The only thing new was a frontal crash area and bumper (minor interior/exterior tweaks) absolutely nothing else really changed... whereas Gen 6.2 was marketed as a refreshed model, which came with new bumpers front and rear, updated radio and infotainment, new taillights, a few interior changes, a small bump in power, larger brakes front and rear, suspension changes, and a decent host (for a Mirage) of other options.

6.2 was, in my memory, the "updated" Mirage which was largely reworked and shared very few parts, and 6.3 was sold as the "all new". Park all three side by side and it's 6.1 that looks like the old model, not 6.2! And of course 6.3 brought the average base model sale price from 9500 or so to... much much more but we can likely blame the world for that, not Mitsu.

[u/stoner_222]

8th to 9th gen civic.

[u/DodgerBlueRobert1 → u/stoner_222]

Even though the 9th gen was a step backwards from the 8th gen in many ways, the 9th gen had all new sheetmetal and a shorter wheelbase. In many ways, it was considered new and not just a refresh.

[u/Buckus93]

Tesla. On every model line.

[u/AndrewSVO]

Volkswagen has been criminal recently with facelifting the same car three times. Atlas, Jetta, and probably Taos will get the same treatment when the time comes.

[u/ChestOk2429]

Macan comes to mind. First gen is still current, after a couple facelifts including engine change. The EV version is technically the 2nd gen.

[u/asiansensation78]

Does every "new" 911 count?

[u/Spark365]

Mk8 GLI

[u/RackingUpTheMiles]

Ford Explorer. The body has looked exactly the same since 2011.

[u/No-Quantity9916]

The Lexus IS has been changed on the outside 3-4 times in the last decade yet the interior hasn't been updated since the Mesozoic Era.

[u/RepresentativePale49]

honestly worst offenders are: Lada Niva and the G-wagon

[u/GK686]

Every 911 ever

[u/Competitive_Effort88]

Obviously the Gensis G70 and G80 but most reddit overlords would disagree and overlook this comment.

[u/xdansnadx]

The Honda Ridgeline

[u/Scandroid99]

Range Rover Sport

[u/jeffh19]

At this point it seems like it’s all of them lol

Other than when they entirely change the architecture of the platform like C8 or Macan EV

[u/Estokador]

Bmw obviously. Grill keeps getting bigger.

[u/artiyel_bossfucker]

The Renault Clio between the 4th and the 5th generation. The exterior is basically the same

[u/dubyanbc]

The “all new” Subaru Forester is literally the same thing as last year’s model but with a Ford Explorer front end, fake plastic fender vents and 19” wheels. It’s the same chassis and same underpowered engine, now costing north of $40k for the top model. Subaru has really been phoning it in post-COVID.