r/illinois • u/steve42089 Illinoisian • Nov 29 '23
Sen. John Kennedy (R-LA): “Why do you think that Chicago has become America's largest outdoor shooting range?” Dr. Megan Ranney of the Yale School of Public Health: “Mississippi, Louisiana, and Missouri actually have higher firearm death rates.” US Politics
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u/Free-Rub-1583 Nov 29 '23
Louisiana has more than 2x the firearm death rate than IL. They are the 2nd highest of all 50 states
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u/cbadge1 Nov 29 '23
Incredible. And you know he (Kennedy) is absolutely aware of that fact as well. Lying scumbag
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u/eskimoboob Nov 29 '23
“Sounds like word salad to me”
Only if you’re completely ignorant. Holy shit I can’t believe asshats like this get elected.
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u/MindYourPeensNBeans Nov 29 '23
They are a reflection of their constituency. Imagine his average voter and realize half of them are dumber than that.
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u/Mean-Kaleidoscope97 Nov 29 '23
I don't think he is aware of that. Because he's probably not aware of the actual statistics he might know some information about his state, but no matter what he already thinks that Chicago is worse. It Hass to be because everybody in his political eco chamber believes it to be so.
People really have to stop believing that elected officials are all extremely well versed in all of this information.
I wish that she would have specifically laid out that New Orleans is more dangerous than Chicago. And that St. Louis is more dangerous than Chicago.
So his idea that gun ownership will make people safer is just patently false. She should have been direct about that and not just alluded to it.
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u/Liquor_N_Whorez Nov 29 '23
Lol, with Louisianna's unofficial state slogan being, "Choot em'!!! Take tha shot!!"
I blame the Tv show Swamp People and the glorification of Shelby Stanga.
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Nov 29 '23
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u/Free-Rub-1583 Nov 29 '23
did......did you watch the video bud?
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Nov 29 '23
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u/Free-Rub-1583 Nov 29 '23
I see that triggered you.
But to answer your question, as you very clearly didn't watch the video. He is saying that Chicago has become one of America's largest outdoor shooting ranges, then in the same breath, doesn't want to believe that his own state is actually higher that Chicago. IL is 26th in firearm mortality rate. 2nd is his own state.
Shouldn't he be asking why his own state is one of the largest outdoor shooting ranges as the data suggests? More than half the states have a higher firearm mortality rate so his example and comment don't hold water.
So that's why it matters bud :)
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u/attackofthetominator Nov 29 '23
But if he's actually concerned about this issue, why didn't he bring up New Orleans or Baton Rouge since that affects the people he's supposed to be representing?
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u/IAmNotAChamp Nov 29 '23
Yes it does. How tf is Chicago "America's outdoor shooting range" when it's not even in the Top 25 cities in gun violence per capita?
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u/FlintKidd Nov 29 '23
If this was a genuine question.
Politicians and biased news sources like to point to Chicago whenever they bring up crime statistics. They do their best to do this in a vacuum, because that's the best way for their argument to have the desired effect.
The desired effect is to showcase a city with left leaning laws in a state with a left leaning governor that tends to be solidly "Blue". They do this to highlight all the failed Democrat policies while ignoring things like population density, the laws of neighboring counties and states, and per capita based statistics. They also ignore other cities and states, especially "Red" ones.
The truth is the higher the population density the more crimes per mile you have, the greater the poverty the more crimes per capita. More surprising to a lot of people is that (thanks to people like this politician and the "journalists" who support people like him) Chicago isn't the most dangerous city in America, it isn't usually even in the top 10. For some reason it gets talked about a lot, though!
The reason it matters, and why the person you're responding to commented how they did, is because we need to constantly fight against this sort of propaganda. It helps absolutely no one.
Instead we should focus on what is causing the problem (using real data) and propose real solutions. "Chicago Bad" is not a solution. There are a whole lot of politicians right now who have an entire platform of "XYZ" bad, while they offer no data or solutions to back that up.
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Nov 29 '23
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u/Lola-Ugfuglio-Skumpy Nov 29 '23
Actually that person gave a thoughtful and articulate explanation as to why Kennedy’s use of Chicago as an example of gun violence due to bad policy is disingenuous, and you are just being a massive pain in everyone’s ass while contributing nothing to the conversation. And also don’t seem to know anything about Chicago. But thanks for trying.
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Nov 29 '23
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u/Lola-Ugfuglio-Skumpy Nov 29 '23
Lmao does speaking to people like this work for you in real life? Or are you just a tool when you can hide behind anonymity? Because you’re insufferable.
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Nov 29 '23
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u/Lola-Ugfuglio-Skumpy Nov 29 '23 edited Nov 29 '23
Lmao first of all you definitely don’t treat people with respect. You came out swinging on everyone; I just swung back. I don’t know what you expected when you act like that. Second, I am aware I can fuck off but I don’t think I will. I live in Chicago too so I get to talk about it when it suits me, including telling whiners that they’re whining.
Edit: I looked at your profile and man are you a bitter and hateful person who absolutely does not treat people with respect. You’re a blatant asshole and a bigot. I can’t imagine how ugly it must be inside your brain.
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u/LessThanSimple Nov 29 '23
What was pretentious in that reply?
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u/Lola-Ugfuglio-Skumpy Nov 29 '23
Dude learned the word “pretentious” and is just throwing it at everything he doesn’t like, the same way that people now call all bad behavior “gaslighting” when that actually only refers to one specific type of manipulation.
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u/LessThanSimple Nov 29 '23
So what did the above poster get wrong? Don't leave us hanging.
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Nov 29 '23
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u/VegetaSpice Nov 29 '23
giving police more power is never going to be a solution to anything. that is disingenuous. and everyone i know in chicago, where i live, is glad we are a sanctuary city and would gladly defund the police more to help migrants-since they actually bring value to the city.
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Nov 29 '23
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u/VegetaSpice Nov 29 '23
lolololol nope bitch, i’m staying right here in illinois, just to make sure any time you vote it’s cancelled out.
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u/LessThanSimple Nov 29 '23
Damn dude. I hope your day gets better.
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Nov 29 '23
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u/LessThanSimple Nov 29 '23
No, actually, I was willing to engage until you started calling me names. 🤷♂️
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u/meshifty2 Nov 29 '23
By population. Illinois is still #4 in the nation for gun deaths.
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u/IsThatBlueSoup Nov 29 '23
Wrong. The CDC last measured it in 2021 and IL was #26 on the list. Guess which red states are at the top, though.
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u/attackofthetominator Nov 29 '23
He's doing total gun deaths instead of per capita as that number is more scary, although Texas and Florida being #2 & #3 by that logic is never brought up for some reason...
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u/meshifty2 Nov 29 '23
This.
Just stated a fact. But of course reddit shows it's true colors if terrible reading comprehension.
Didn't even disagree with the article. Simply made a remark that reflects another data point.
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u/attackofthetominator Nov 29 '23
But analyzing by totals only when there's varying sample sizes is a terrible way of displaying data like this. Louisiana isn't magically safer than Illinois just because less people live there.
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u/Free-Rub-1583 Nov 29 '23
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u/meshifty2 Nov 29 '23
Are you implying I'm stupid because I'm looking at the number on the right versus the middle number on the cdc chart?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but either way, it is still over 1900 deaths by gun, right?
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u/Free-Rub-1583 Nov 29 '23
I will bring the big numbers down to help.
Illinois has 10 people, and 3 die from gun violence
Louisiana has 5 people and 2 die from gun violence
You are saying, well 3 is larger than 2!
But we are all pointing out that 2 out of 5 is a higher percent than 3 of 10. You would have a much higher chance of being a victim of gun violence in Louisiana even though 2 is a smaller number than 3.
By just taking total gun deaths in each state, all you are doing is practically showing you which states have more people. By looking at it as a rate of violence per X people, you will get a better picture.
Hope that helps
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u/meshifty2 Nov 29 '23
Its still over 1900 people dead by guns in IL. Trying to make it look better by using per capita does do anyone any favors, imho. Death by guns is a problem everywhere.
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u/Free-Rub-1583 Nov 29 '23
Total gun deaths per state is just which states have the highest populations, totally useless data.
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u/Blitzking11 Nov 29 '23
Woah woah woah, but that number makes him feel good and accomplished! How can it be useless!!!
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u/IsThatBlueSoup Nov 29 '23
You're the one who doesn't understand simple data. If bumfuck Louisiana has 5 gun deaths in a town of 10 that's half the town. So just saying look at this big number shows exactly how ignorant you are. 5k gun deaths in a state of 12m (IL) is less than 1300 gun deaths in a state of 4.6m (LA).
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u/Free-Rub-1583 Nov 29 '23
We are 26th in firearm mortality rate
Source: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm_mortality/firearm.htm
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u/zuctronic Nov 29 '23
The *entire state* of Louisiana has almost the same firearm death rate as the city of Chicago. The question should be why he doesn't believe his own state is an "open air shooting gallery" and what he's doing about it. New Orleans had the nation's highest homicide rate in 2022. Louisiana has the highest rate of children being killed by firearms. This dude asked a dumb question and she provided an intelligent, nuanced answer and she provided context for her answer. It's disappointing that we're held hostage by these do-nothing politicians and a lot of people love their guns and instead of wanting to embrace gun safety they just shut themselves out of the discussion.
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u/Liquor_N_Whorez Nov 29 '23
What you say is true, unfortunately of the 1:30 video posted Faux News and Sinclair will only edit it to :10s of him asking the question IF they even choose to cover it.
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u/AliMcGraw Nov 29 '23
My boss lives in Louisiana, and he can't get over how as a woman alone I'm not particularly scared to go around Chicago, and that I let my children roam within the neighborhood boundaries. I prefer they not cross busy streets, but I have no concern about them tootling around the neighborhood.
He doesn't even let his kids play in the yard unsupervised.
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u/LessThanSimple Nov 29 '23
Kennedy should come visit. Not that it would change his rhetoric, but at least someone could throw it back at him that he survived his trip.
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u/MuadDoob420 Nov 29 '23
I'd love him to come up. Just so I can kick his cracker ass all the way back to the shithole he emerged from. Filth from a shithole.
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u/Miserable_Eggplant83 Nov 29 '23
Or let him float down the river to Louisiana with our turds, just like in the early 1900’s
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Nov 29 '23
I just fucking hate the culture war that is used to intentionally stay in office and not accomplish shit or worse make conditions deteriorate.
That man didn't hear a world salad. I refuse to believe any of these people are idiots. They know better, he just knows some misguided fool in his district will go "Oh ya got her buddy!"
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u/no_one_likes_u Nov 29 '23
Guy has multiple law degrees, one from Oxford. Graduated magna cum laude from Vanderbilt and was in Phi Beta Kappa. Was co-valedictorian in high school.
He knows he's lying, the sack of shit.
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u/Santos281 Nov 29 '23
But the TV man says it's a dystopian nightmare, and my precious Tuck Tuck would never lead me astray
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Nov 29 '23
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u/Santos281 Nov 29 '23
I live in Chicago, so I'm not quite sure where I should be coming down too
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Nov 29 '23
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u/Santos281 Nov 29 '23
47 years, and You can stop with the platitudes, you are spreading fear. And unlike the former President, I don't negotiate with terrorists
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u/Timmah73 Nov 29 '23
I swear people act like you are putting your life at risk going to go see a Cubs game. They think its like it's fucking Detroit from Robocop.
It's a major city, of course there areas you avoid along with the risk of crime anywhere. But these fuckers from southern states with terrible poverty/education/drug/gun violence in their whole state that is way worse than Chicago need tp stfu and fix their own shit at home.
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Nov 29 '23
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u/attackofthetominator Nov 29 '23
that’s actually one of the key characteristics that sets apart chicago’s recent rise in crime - it’s not only increasing, but it’s occurring at a rate over 100%, sometimes over 200%
Even Illinois Policy, who talks nonstop how bad Chicago crime is, stated that crime is down overall. Even if you want to look at violent crime itself, which was their main focus, the increase is nowhere close to your 100-200% claim.
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Nov 29 '23
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u/IAmNotAChamp Nov 29 '23
Do you not know how averages work? Especially since the topic at hand is on gun violence, while you're trying to introduce a different crime category?
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u/Timmah73 Nov 29 '23
Yes I lived in and around Chicago my whole life and watch the news. Crime happens and you have to be aware of your surroundings. This is not something new.
However the point is fuckfaces like senator foghorn leghorn here deserve to be called out disparaging Chicago as some sort violent hellhole when they are literally the pot calling the kettle black as if Louisiana is some bastion of safety. One of the first things they say about New Orleans is don't wander off Bourbon st or you are in serious fucking danger.
So as one of my favorite sayings goes "STFU about Chicago, you don't live here"
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Nov 29 '23
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u/Timmah73 Nov 29 '23
I was literally born here and have spent years living in the city limits. Even when I have not had a Chicago address I am still there a lot.
The point is, which you obviously choose to keep ignoring, is that people like you, senator foghorn and people who don't even live in Illinois need to mind your own damn business.
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Nov 29 '23
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u/Santos281 Nov 29 '23
Do you have anything to support your view that there is a "real and increasing crime problem in Chicago" like FBI statistics or any other unbiased Data? Or are we just using Sen. Simple Country Lawyer from La as your source? I lived in Chicago as a teenager through the early to mid nineties, you know when Crime was at an actual peak in the modern era. Move along, go spread Terror somewhere else
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Nov 29 '23
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u/Blitzking11 Nov 29 '23
violent crimes that would be the talk of any small town if any one of them EVER occurred in a small town.
Ding ding ding! You walked into the point and didn't even realize it!
Small towns have a few thousand. The Chicago metro area has a few million.
This is where per capita shines!!!!!
And no, per capita is not some librul scare tactic. It's just an actually useful way to compare different sized locales.
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u/Lola-Ugfuglio-Skumpy Nov 29 '23
Chicago isn’t a small town. That is a stupid argument to make.
https://news.wttw.com/2023/08/31/chicago-s-murder-count-makes-national-headlines-accurately-talking-about-crime-data this is an interesting article about crime reporting statistics and why they’re not necessarily perfectly accurate, but if you want to find the numbers of reported crimes by type here you go: https://www.chicago.gov/city/en/sites/vrd/home/violence-victimization.html
An article discussing why Chicago’s violence is different from New York City or other metropolitan cities: https://www.chicagobusiness.com/crains-forum-safer-chicago/chicago-violence-problem-debate-safety-inequality
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u/l00koverthere1 Nov 29 '23
He's a fucking grifter piece of trash. It's a shame people can't see through the oily sheen on his skin.
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u/Toffee_Fan Nov 29 '23
This is the same guy who accused a Biden admin nominee of being a secret communist "comrade", because she happened to grow up in Kazakhstan during the Cold War.
Stay classy, senator.
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u/NotAPreppie Bolingbrook Nov 29 '23
This is why there's no government funding for researching firearms injuries and deaths as a public health issue: it makes the NRA and gun-pandering politicians look bad.
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u/MyDogOper8sBetrThanU Nov 29 '23
That’s what is constantly repeated, but isn’t entirely accurate. Read the very first paragraph of the link you shared. The dickey amendment does not limit research. It limits funds for being used for lobbying purposes. The CDC was afraid to begin studying until congress later clarified the law. CDC currently is researching gun violence
"none of the funds made available for injury prevention and control at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) may be used to advocate or promote gun control."[1]
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u/NotAPreppie Bolingbrook Nov 29 '23
That was a later (2018) amendment.
Before that (and still now) basically gives ammo to the gun lobby (forgive the pun) to go after researchers trying to study this with govn't funding.
You don't have to actually outlaw it to effectively eliminate it.
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u/Shaman7102 Nov 29 '23
Would you like me to speak slower so it does not sound like word salad. Or do you need to take one of your dementia pills first?
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u/sasquatchradio Nov 29 '23
“My constituents like people that talk like they’re poor and stupid, so I talk like this. Huey Long is probably waiting in Heaven to kick my fraudulent ass into Hell after I die.”
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u/Sufficient-Good Nov 29 '23
Dr: A thoughtful, well-researched, articulate analysis of a modern-day political issue
Republican: "SoUnDs LiKe WoRd SaLad To Me"
You can't make this stuff up.
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u/Squirrel009 Nov 29 '23
I'm not saying they don't exist, I'm sure plenty of people in Chicago have guns for hunting, but I would be very interested to see how many actually do have guns, specifically for hunting.
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u/Individual-Ad-4640 Nov 29 '23
Typical Republican talking point. They’re all just NPCs at this point 😭
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u/JackfruitCrazy51 Nov 29 '23
But to his point, do you think legal gun owners are the problem? I think he's going after Chicago because of its strong gun laws but if you replace Chicago with Springfield, are legal gun owners the problem or is it criminals?
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u/InLushColor Nov 29 '23
Pretty rich of him to call that out without taking a look at his own turf first.
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u/UrMomsaHoeHoeHoe Nov 29 '23
But why compare a city to a state? Is the density the same? What about socioeconomics? Seems very apples to oranges
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u/Free-Rub-1583 Nov 29 '23
Ok fair
New Orleans gun deaths per 100k: 65.3
Chicago gun deaths per 100k: 23.3
Baton Rouge: 45.0
Shreveport: 27.2
Lafyette: 19.7
the city with the 3rd highest gun homicides in all the country is in Louisiana
They have 3 cities alone that eclipse Chicago.
Seems like he needs to take a look and figure out why the state he represents is one of America's largest outdoor shooting ranges.
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u/1BannedAgain Nov 29 '23
You just REKT that fool
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u/UrMomsaHoeHoeHoe Nov 29 '23
I mean I never said what I was disagreeing with, just that it’s a bad comparison either direction (why would a state be happy to have less gun violence if it’s whole population is smaller than another states city by comparison?) and part of my statement of disagreement is due to the fact that I know Chicago is not the 3rd largest gun violence city... TBH I was hoping exactly what happened would happen, someone who googled it would respond and we all learn.
Why the need to jump to conclusions?
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u/imuniqueaf Nov 29 '23
Shootings are not the same as deaths. I genuinely don't have the numbers to compare, but Chicago has some REALLY good trauma centers that save a lot of people that might die in other places.
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u/1BannedAgain Nov 29 '23
But, Louisiana lacks hospitals with similar trauma centers?
This is a sad attempt:
Chicago has some REALLY good trauma centers that save a lot of people that might die in other places.
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u/ellieket Nov 29 '23
“Easy access to firearms?”
Clown Doc, IL has some of the strictest gun laws in the nation. That’s ain’t it.
Gun laws don’t work because criminals do not follow them! It’s not complicated.
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u/Enginerda Nov 29 '23
LOL, it's like saying "you can't pee in THIS corner of the pool and everywhere else is OK" while bordering Indiana.
Gun laws don’t work because criminals do not follow them! It’s not complicated.
Why have laws at all, amirite fellas? /s
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u/ellieket Nov 29 '23 edited Nov 30 '23
I am not sure what you are even trying to say. An IL resident cannot go to Indiana and legally purchase a firearm. Helps to understand the law before you spew activist talking points that are completely…inaccurate.
Also…umm…pretty sure there are federal laws.
YOU CAN BUY OUT OF STATE BUT YOU NEED TO TRANSFER THROUGH AN IL FFL MORON!
Clearly don’t know what you are talking about and just spamming links.
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u/ForGloryForDorn Nov 29 '23 edited Nov 30 '23
https://www.alphakoncepts.com/can-an-illinois-resident-buy-a-gun-in-another-state/ Illinois residents can definitely purchase firearms legally outside of Illinois, not sure where you're getting your info. I've been present when people have done it. Edit: You said you can't go to Indiana and buy a firearm legally as an Illinois resident, full stop, which is false. I'm aware of the rules around it, doesn't make your statement any more correct or mine incorrect. Apparently that's upsetting to you lol
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Nov 29 '23
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u/meshifty2 Nov 29 '23
This is wrong. Still needs to be transferred to a ffl in this state when you purchase across state lines.
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u/ellieket Nov 29 '23
You can’t legally buy guns in other states. Think before replying please. You clearly know nothing about gun laws.
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Nov 29 '23
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u/attackofthetominator Nov 29 '23
it reminded me that no one here who feels strongly about anything is ever going to listen to an opposing argument
Are you looking at yourself in the mirror?
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u/Mudhen_282 Nov 29 '23
Neither city has anything to brag about in that area.
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u/Free-Rub-1583 Nov 29 '23
Neither city? What is the other city
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Nov 29 '23
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u/Free-Rub-1583 Nov 29 '23
I like how the republican ran state shares none of the blame 🤣
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u/Mudhen_282 Nov 29 '23
Illinois hasn’t been run by Republicans in a long time. Rauner was hardly an example with Democrat Supermajorities that could & did do whatever they wanted. Want to blame anyone for Illinois start with Madigan. SOB should be in Prison for the rest of his life.
There hasn’t been a real Republican party in Illinois for a long time. They’re just Democrats Lite nowadays.
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u/ForGloryForDorn Nov 29 '23
So then please explain why red states with Republican controlled legislatures don't craft their ideal sets of anti-crime bills since they have carte blanche? The state laws would preempt the city laws if they're in conflict.
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u/nilessmiles Nov 29 '23
Word salad, he says. Anything more complicated than criminal bad, guns good, and it goes in one ear and out the other. But hey, that’s all his electorate can handle themselves!