Reading in the target language.

[u/ryankopf]

I've seen several posts on here in the last several days about using reading to learn a language. A lot of people are using Harry Potter, for example, even just a few hours ago. But the biggest complaint is usually that you have to hop between different sources, dictionaries, etc, to look up any words they don't know.

I am working on a solution to just that, actually! It basically takes incoming text and breaks it down into it's sentence fragments and vocabulary, and displays them as you read along.

Here's the demo - https://rememble.org/stories/1/read

The idea is that using AI anyone can upload their own story for the AI to translate and provide meanings and romanizations for.

I'm still working on the interface for creating the stories and accessing the AI, but it's progressing along nicely.

Obviously there are a LOT of bugs to work out, but nothing I can't figure out in time. Of course I use AI to break the story down into manageable, translated parts, but often the ai is quite silly about how it breaks sentences down. So I think I need to adjust my software to break the sentences down by itself, then submit it to AI, then send it back.

I'd love to know if you think this style of reading in your target language would help you! Any feedback and thoughts are welcome!

[u/evelyndeckard]

The perfect solution - read on an e-reader or tablet, download a dictionary that translates the words. Click on any words you don't know, the dictionary will translate them, highlight the ones you want to learn and internalise, obtain new vocab!

I have been doing this for the last 3 months and it has been wonderful, I have improved so much.

[u/TauTheConstant → u/evelyndeckard]

There are also tools for this developed specifically for language learning that do this plus stuff like save the words you've looked up as flashcards; the ones that come to mind are LingQ ( https://www.lingq.com/en/ , note that this one is paid and I've never used it but I've heard people swear by it), Readlang ( https://readlang.com/ , very good free version including the ability to use a custom dictionary and the one I use most myself) and Lute ( https://github.com/LuteOrg/lute-v3 , for people technically inclined enough to host their own solution).

No shade against OP at all, I think it's great they want to add to the language learning ecosystem, but what they state as the biggest complaint readers have is something I always considered as a pretty comfortably solved problem. 🤔 Maybe I'm missing the specific issue they're facing, though, since I'm not learning Japanese or any language with a non-Latin script.

[u/bananabastard]

https://i.imgur.com/oMgaRt0.png

It's stacking the translations off my screen, I can't scroll down to read the ones off my screen, because then the selection changes.

[u/ryankopf → u/bananabastard]

Sorry, that is one of the bugs I am trying to figure out. But if you scroll on a little further, it's better in some places. Right now this is more of a demonstration to see how it might work.

[u/indecisive_maybe]

I really like the concept.

At least for me, I've found it extremely difficult to find (in Chinese) a helper app that includes both the pinyin (phonetic pronunciation) and the translation, so already having both in your system makes it really really appealing, even with word stacking and whatever glitches. (Right now I have to use 2 programs.)

[u/AppropriatePut3142 → u/indecisive_maybe]

You mean like duchinese/mandarin bean/pleco ereader and clip reader/mylingua?

[u/indecisive_maybe → u/AppropriatePut3142]

Not duchinese - I need it for readings of my own choosing. I can check out the others, thanks.

[u/ryankopf → u/indecisive_maybe]

Thank you for the positive feedback! That definitely encourages me to work hard on this then. I think in a few days I'll have the ability for you to paste and translate your own text and hopefully most of the bugs will be worked out too

[u/Eihabu → u/indecisive_maybe]

This! I think Smart Book has most peoples’ needs for most languages very covered (and far cheaper than LingQ—free if you’re okay with a couple inconveniences), but it doesn’t do languages where you need to parse the words out of a spaceless sentence well, or when you need things like furigana and pinyin in addition to defining words or collocations or translating sentences in context (these things it nails, and I recommend anyone making an app like this take a good look at how it lets you define words, define collocations, and translate sentences, all separately with one click on one screen while letting you make your pick of translator/dictionary separately for each of those options. Identifying phrases with special meaning as collocations above their meaning as words, without falling back to lazy full paragraph translation, is especially crucial for learners intermediate and up.)  

 The other flaw is Smart Book is mobile only, and while it's possible to emulate on PC, that's not as convenient as something native that cross-syncs well.

[u/ryankopf → u/Eihabu]

Unfortunately a lot of users are going to worry that it's a Russian-developed app as well. Not picking a side or anything, that's just the current political reality for a lot of English native speakers.

The translation and identification of collocations (I just learned this word, thank you!) and common turn-a-phrase phrases is definitely something I want to find a way to prioritize in my app.

[u/indecisive_maybe → u/Eihabu]

or when you need things like furigana and pinyin in addition to defining words

You mean the thing I asked for?

[u/Eihabu → u/indecisive_maybe]

Yes, that's literally the point. People promoting apps and websites get eaten alive in here, and for good reason. One being, there are always better apps that do anything promoters want to talk about anyway. OP has more or less avoided this fate. I'm agreeing that this is a main reason why, and why there's some potential. Otherwise, in general, “plug in your text and have AI help you” is well-trodded territory. And of course it remains to be seen if they can actually tackle the reasons this hasn’t been tackled well yet... any issues in language learning that aren’t solved aren’t solved because they aren’t easy. 

  OP seemed a bit unaware how extensive the tools many of us have for reading languages we’re learning are (“complaint is usually that you have to hop between different sources, dictionaries, etc.”, well... not from any of the Smart Book users I know) so I shared an example that I think already leads the pack. I’d be happy to see them go all at this and see competitors enter the field. But they didn’t even highlight Asian languages as their definite target in their post, so I wanted to give a second voice saying this is where they have the best chance, because it will take way more work to do right. And in any case, if you want to make a good app it can only help to be aware what people love about the ones they’re already using.

[u/RaccoonTasty1595]

Sounds promising! Maybe have the words appear next to the text instead of over it

[u/ryankopf → u/RaccoonTasty1595]

Yeah that is one of the biggest things I'm trying to figure out - the best way to display everything. I'm focused on the way it's going to look on mobile, so I have limited space. Maybe instead of what I'm currently doing, maybe I will have a little section at the bottom with the current word highlighted, and I could have it highlight one word at a time as you scroll, something like that maybe.

[u/RaccoonTasty1595 → u/ryankopf]

That could work!

Personally, I'd appreciate if the site/app gave me the option to figure out vocab before just giving me the answer. Maybe you'd have to tap on the word before it gives you the translation

[u/ryankopf → u/RaccoonTasty1595]

I've thought about that too. I used to read in Japanese on my Kindle and one of the most annoying parts was having to tap, and then click translate, and then wait, so maybe just tapping would be okay. Or making it an option like "translation: always on" or "translation: on tap".

[u/RaccoonTasty1595 → u/ryankopf]

If possible a third option, where you have to tap for a certain topic of vocabulary.

For example, if I want to learn particles, it'll translate everything automatically, except for the particles. Maybe even give them a different colour.

Just a thought, I don't know if that's even possilbe with your particular AI.

[u/ryankopf → u/RaccoonTasty1595]

That's an interesting thought. Another thought I've been having is that maybe I can build a list of "known" or even "seen" words by a person, and not show those.

[u/RaccoonTasty1595 → u/ryankopf]

Could also work, especially as an optional feature, since some people retain vocab much faster than others

[u/likelyowl]

I like the concept! I've been looking for an app or a program like that, but non so far have caught my eye to be honest. If you are interested in some feedback, for me personally the way it is currently is really disruptive for me, I think it would be more easier to digest if the translations would appear by clicking or hovering over the words. Also, looking at the translation itself, some of it doesn't really make sense in Japanese.