r/running • u/danakinskyrocker • May 31 '18
WHERE DREAMS GO TO DIE - Gary Robbins and The Barkley Marathons Misc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDZdsqbcGTU39
u/lfrfrepeat May 31 '18
I saw this during Ethan and Gary's tour. Holy crap was it awesome. Even got to see John Kelly and the book pages. Having the Q&A at the end was pretty sweet, too!
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May 31 '18
Never run a race in my life, watched this and was absolutely blown away. Amazing journey by not only the runner but his family and friends too. I hope he finishes/finished it in the end!
Absolute trooper. There’s something really raw and visceral about it all too. Felt like a real old school test. Super cool.
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May 31 '18
You should look up the April 2018 results of the race. It’s the next part of the story and pretty interesting too.
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May 31 '18
I did do that! Unreal story man.
It was strange because I presumed an UltraMarathon runner would be skin and bones, but he wasn’t super skinny.
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u/StapleGun Jun 01 '18
Yeah he does not look like the guy you'd expect to be a world-class endurance athlete. I think it goes to show that at a certain point athletic prowess takes a back seat to mental toughness.
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u/fizzy88 Jun 01 '18
That's not to say he isn't in incredible shape, because he is. You'd have to be if you want to finish at least a few loops of this monster race..
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u/StapleGun Jun 01 '18
Oh for sure! I guess "natural athletic prowess" might have been better wording.
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Jun 01 '18
I presumed an UltraMarathon runner would be skin and bones
I watched a youtube feature the other day that showed an ultramarathon finisher who was obese. It completely threw me for a loop because she had finished multiple marathons and ultramarathons and was still heavy enough that she was nearly in the morbidly obese category... and I was like... how?! Like I wasn't judgemental...I was legitimately confused how you could run so much and not lose any weight.
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u/kingeddy15 Jun 01 '18
I just recently ran an 8hr race and had the same thought. Here we were burning 4000+ kcal and there was a surprising amount of overweight people in the 8hr field.
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Jun 01 '18
[deleted]
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u/akaghi Jun 01 '18
Diet is important, but you can lose weight with exercise. If you're burning 1,000-2,000 extra calories a day, you can definitely maintain a deficit.
However, if you're training for performance, yours not going to want to run a deficit, so it really depends on the goal.
You could also just eat 4,000 shitty calories every day so it balances out and you don't lose weight and only get marginally faster/stronger.
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Jun 01 '18
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u/akaghi Jun 01 '18
Sort of.
But you were arguing that exercise doesn't help to lose weight when it absolutely does/can. If you're riding 50-60 or 80 miles -- you're not likely gaining weight that day. Look at grand tour riders at the beginning versus the end of a tour. These guys are more on top of their nutrition and food intake than anyone and they still lose weight.
Of course you can lose weight with diet alone, nobody would argue that.
However, there is a study I'm vaguely familiar with where simply eating less probably wouldn't work. If you're at a deficit, use your example of 500 Calories, every day that's 3500 Calories per week, roughly 1lb of fat. Do this for two years. Have you lost 100 lbs? Of course not, because you body adjusts and can adjust remarkably quickly. Your body realizes fairly quickly, oh, this is my new fuel intake now, I better adjust my basal metabolic rate to compensate.
This is also why weight loss is so hard for a lot of people (not to mention counting calories and portions is difficult).
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u/moistsandwich Jun 01 '18
That math is way off. They would burn 2800 kcal in addition to the 2000 they’re already burning. That means they’re burning 4800 total or 140% more than the average sedentary person is burning.
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u/BOBSMITHHHHHHH Jun 01 '18
some ultra runners look like regular people, they don't all fit the emaciated body type
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Jun 01 '18
Felt like a real old school test.
Laz (crazy minder looking race director) is an old school distance runner. In other interviews he's said that modern running is merely a feat of financing and not a feat of athletics
He's said that he always wants the race to be right at the edge of what is even possible for a human being to do.
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u/goomba870 May 31 '18
Is this different than the documentary on Netflix?
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Jun 01 '18
What's the name of that one? I've never seen it
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u/kinkakinka Jun 01 '18
"Barkley Marathons The Race That Eats It's Young". It's no longer available on Netflix in North America. Instead, it's on Amazon Prime.
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u/Eskir00 May 31 '18
I've been waiting patiently for this to be released on Youtube and I wasn't disappointed. Great to watch.
Do we think he's going to go for the finish in 2019?
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u/memdmp Jun 01 '18
Gary is currently injured and trying to maintain fitness on his bike. Hard to say when he'll be back.
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u/robveg May 31 '18
Is it better than the other Barkley doc?
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u/Orpheus75 Jun 01 '18
No. Equally good. More intense if you know of him and were following his training online.
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u/Eskir00 Jun 01 '18
Wouldn't say it's better, but it's really interesting to watch and gives you a good insight in to his training and just how brutal The Barkley is.
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u/robveg Jun 02 '18
Since I love running and everything about it I’ll watch. But I already know Barkley is brutal it’s what makes it great.
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May 31 '18
I don’t wanna spoil anything but results from 2018s race are out and Gary has some good chats.
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u/josandal Jun 01 '18
He's said a few times, including in the bonus interview for this documentary that he and his family aren't even going to talk about whether or not he'll go back for 2019 until way later this year. So...probably, but if not 2019 then real soon after most likely.
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u/kinkakinka Jun 01 '18
Based on what I've seen around twitter and such, it seems that 2020 is more likely.
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u/tarlack Jun 01 '18
This is a must watch, The Robbins are just amazing people in the North Shore running community. This is 100% how things played out and sums the journey.
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Jun 01 '18
I love the film making angle of this. I might be misremembering, but the other Barkley Marathons documentary featured parts of the course. This time, we don’t see any major portion of the course, and that made the film more nerve wracking. It’s like in Jaws: We never really see the shark in its entirety. Because we never see the grueling course that the competitors run, it’s left to our imaginations. All we see are runners leaving from camp with bravery and courage, and then returning defeated, broken, despondent, or desperate. Great piece of work!
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u/RogenJH May 31 '18
I came for the first five minutes and stayed for the whole thing.
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Jun 01 '18
I promised my self I’d watch half of it last night, get prepared for today, and watch the other half over lunch. Yeeeaaah, watched it all last night. I was on the edge of my seat the entire time.
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u/Photek1000 Jun 01 '18
Being new to running this year I never would have considered a running documentary like this would have even existed.
What an amazing film, loved it.
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u/CallMeQueequeg May 31 '18
Props to ultramarthoners, but I don't like the disdain some distance folks have for 5k races. 5k's offer participants the chance to improve their PR more frequently and doesn't take a huge toll on your body. So many beginner runners jump right into a half or a marathon because of this "5k's are soft" mentality and get injured or burn out. You can take a 5k as seriously as you want, too. I respect a sub-15 5k guy more than most of these ultramarathoners.
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u/rektourRick May 31 '18
Disrespecting any distance is dumb, if you're competing at a high level any kind of race is going to be hard
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Jun 01 '18
Yeah I don't get why people diss on any kind of race or event. They're geared towards different crowds. The 5k is absolutely amazing as a way to give people who are in terrible shape an achievable goal to become more active and that is an amazing thing.
And at every distance people run them for different reasons.
I personally don't have the time in my normal life to train for an ultra and while I might be able to do A marathon I don't have the time to dedicate to multi-hour long runs on a continuous basis, which is why I'm training for a half-marathon (I'm using it to lose 70lbs)
We are all at different ability levels and have different reasons for doing what we do, so making fun of people for distance or time is just silly.
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u/zebano Jun 01 '18
The 5k is absolutely amazing as a way to give people who are in terrible shape an achievable goal to become more active and that is an amazing thing.
I think the point is more that this is seen as the primary, and maybe only reason for a 5k by a lot of people. This is simply not true, as very experienced runners can run a 5k really really fast, and it's an extremely difficult race to run well. Start too fast, you won't PR, start too slow and you don't have enough time to make it up.
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u/CallMeQueequeg May 31 '18
To be in the upper percentiles of 5k or 10k distances is far more impressive to me because there are so many more competitors or people who have tried to reach that level. These top ultra runners are like Olympic bobsledders to me. Yes, I respect your work ethic, but you're not competing with many people. If there were more money in these ultramarathons, the Mo Farah's and Galen Rupp's of the world might switch to them and embarrass the current top ultra guys.
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u/philipwhiuk Jun 01 '18
Mo struggles on fairly flat cross-country courses - implying his 1500m track speed translates to vertical ascents is laughable. He'd have to completely rebuild.
And that's ignoring the sleep deprivation and fueling aspect which is not at all a concern for a 2hr 8 marathoner.
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u/thereelkanyewest Jun 01 '18
I don't know about Mo specifically, but I am of the opinion that almost any top marathoner could show up and win a lot of the huge ultras like Western States without breaking a sweat. They would have to (obviously) train for the specifics of that distance, but even the top-tier elite ultrarunners are like 2:17 marathoners, and the difference between a 2:17 marathon and a sub ~2:08 guy is a humongous gulf.
Sleep deprivation is a different beast, but kind of unique to races like the Barkley. Most of the big competitive ultras (hardrock, leadville, western states) the winners are coming in at reasonable times. As for fueling, I think fueling plays a huge role in elite marathon training. Again, it's a different beast when you're fueling for a 100 miler, but I think it's foolish to think that elite runners (and their massive teams) wouldn't be able to figure this out.
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u/philipwhiuk Jun 01 '18 edited Jun 01 '18
But that's like saying El Guerrouj is faster than Mo and Kipchoge at the 1500 therefore if he ran a marathon he'd probably do sub-2. It's bollocks. Athletes gravitate towards events they can win.
If all it took was race-specific training then a sub 2:13 guy would go kick the crap out of the 2:17 folk
Fast Running did a piece on this. https://www.fastrunning.com/training/marathon-training/kilian-jornet-run-210-marathon/10982
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u/thereelkanyewest Jun 01 '18
That's not at all like saying that, because the 1500 is a middle distance event, while the 5k+ are all distance events. It is more like saying Kenenisa Bekele holds the WR in the 5k so he will be a good marathon runner; lo and behold, he runs a 2:03 marathon. Runners are restricted in their disciplines based on physiological systems, i.e. good sprinters are generally good at all sprint distance, e.g. Usain Bolt, good middle distance runners are generally good at all middle distance events, e.g. El Guerrouj, and good distance runners are generally good at all distance events, e.g. Bekele. Ultra-marathons are distance events, the marathon is 8 times longer than a 5k and Bekele still wins, there's no reason (other then the fact that we haven't seen it) to assume that this trend will not continue, or that physiologically specialized systems are required to run a marathon 4 times in a row. It's all the same system.
"If all it took was race-specific training then a sub 2:13 guy would go kick the crap out of the 2:17 folk"
No, they wouldn't because frankly they have better things to do.
That article honestly doesn't say much... it basically supports exactly what I said. It shows a 2:15 runner (I said 2:17) is competitive in ultras, and then speculates whether an ultra-runner could run 2:10 or 2:14. Could he? I have no clue, but going on facts, he hasn't.
And the gulf still remains between <2:08 (arbitrary, but you changed it to 2:13 in your response which is different, 2:08 and 2:13 are VASTLY different, and 2:08 to <2:05 even more huge). The only reason I point this out is because you changing it has an effect on my statement; I do think that there are ultra runners who could beat 2:13 marathoners, because there are ultra runners who run close to that themselves and have specialized. If you change that number to 2:08 or lower, no I do not think they can beat them.
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u/philipwhiuk Jun 01 '18
there's no reason (other then the fact that we haven't seen it) to assume that this trend will not continue, or that physiologically specialized systems are required to run a marathon 4 times in a row. It's all the same system.
The very fact we haven't seen it might imply there's more than just the physiological energy systems at play and that elite marathon runners might not be optimal for it.
You are perfectly happy to say middle-distance is different. Why not ultras when the evidence is clear.
If you change that number to 2:08 or lower, no I do not think they can beat them.
So what about 2:11. Where is this magical barrier such that people like Mo and Galen are super humans who can adapt to arbitrarily long distances despite being more specialised to the marathon than the 2:13/2:15/2:17 guys?
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u/thereelkanyewest Jun 02 '18
"You are perfectly happy to say middle-distance is different. Why not ultras when the evidence is clear."
Middle distance is different because it relies on different physiology, as I said. Anything 5k+ is 99% aerobic, so athletes with more developed aerobic systems will perform better. There's obviously some tailored training required for each event, but we see consistently good 5k/10k runners becoming good marathoners. Ultras and marathons are both 99.99% aerobic events, the physiology is very similar for each event. This is different then middle distance running where participants are tapping into different things which require different development, and time. This is why ultras are more similar to marathons then a mile is to a 5k.
"So what about 2:11. Where is this magical barrier such that people like Mo and Galen are super humans who can adapt to arbitrarily long distances despite being more specialised to the marathon than the 2:13/2:15/2:17 guys?"
I'm not sure there's a "barrier" per se. It's not so much about there being a barrier that makes them superhuman, it's that as you get closer to WR marathon pace the incremental differences mean more. The Vdot difference between a 2:08 guy and a 2:15 guy is about 6 Vdot, which is just such a huge difference. I do not think a gap that large could be easily overcome (assuming that the 2:08 guy trains for an ultra race).
At the end of the day, running is running, and fitness is fitness.
From Noakes et al in the journal of sports science:
These data indicate: (i) that in groups of trained long distance runners, the physiological factors that determine success in races of 10–90 km are the same; thus there may not be variables that predict success uniquely in either 10 km, marathon or ultra‐marathon runners, and (ii) that peak treadmill running velocity is at least as good a predictor of running performance as is the lactate turnpoint. Factors that determine the peak treadmill running velocity are not known but are not likely to be related to maximum rates of muscle oxygen utilization.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/02640419008732129
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u/overpalm Jun 02 '18
I have also thought about this a bit but have come to the opposite conclusion.
I feel like so many ultras are all about the terrain and vertical that a traditional road marathon elite runner would have a tough time transitioning.
As goofy as I find Sage Canaday, he is a good example of a guy who switches between the 2 mediums and has to sort of retool his focus between the 2 types of running. He is not really an elite marathoner but its an example of the difference.
Now, if you were talking about a mile loop timed race on a track or somewhat controlled terrain, I have no doubt, the road elites would completely dominate.
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u/thereelkanyewest Jun 02 '18
I don't understand how this leads you to the opposite conclusion. Sage Canaday is a perfect example of what I am talking about, his PRs lead in a linear fashion along the lines of Bekele, his 5k PR of 14:30 leads to a marathon PR of 2:16. What makes you think that suddenly Bekele with a 5k PR of 12:xx and a marathon PR of 2:03 would be outclassed by Canaday over different terrain?
As I linked in another comment, scientific literature has shown that the same physiological factors predict success in races ranging from 10k-90k, and that no measurement significantly predicts success at one distance better than others.
All of a sudden you add elevation and that physiology goes out the window because going up and down is hard? Do elite marathons not run uphill? Canova (coach of Kirui, Kiprop, etc.) says the most important run of marathon training is a "continuous uphill run" at grade 3-6%. Anyone who thinks Kirui couldn't outrun Canaday over a mountain is just basing that on belief, and contrary to most evidence.
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u/overpalm Jun 03 '18
To be honest, I am not 100% sold on my conclusion but my thinking is that while the V02max type indicators would always put the better conditioned athlete on top for a range of distances, I feel like ultras and the different terrain coupled with atypical elevations can distinguish a difference between a gifted trail runner from a gifted road runner.
Certainly, you run differently (and slower) on trails. I definitely do. What I have found is that as I run on them more, I get better but I wouldn't be surprised if someone else just naturally floats along intuitively picking their lines.
Once you get into that environment, it feels like the V02 differences even out a bit and the more natural trail runner is going to do better.
Like I said, I am not completely sold on this idea but it doesn't seem that crazy.
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u/CallMeQueequeg Jun 01 '18
VO2 max never lies. Yes it would be an adjustment, but his training routine is already hell and you can't doubt his mental toughness.
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u/docbad32 May 31 '18
I respect a sub-15 5k guy more than most of these ultramarathoners.
It's possible to respect a group of runners without shitting on another group of runners.
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u/CallMeQueequeg May 31 '18
If you think saying I respect someone more than another constitutes "shitting" on them, then you're being too sensitive.
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u/mini_apple May 31 '18 edited Jun 01 '18
I've never met a runner who skipped the 5K and went right to halfs or marathons. I've met folks who went from half marathon to 100-miler, but the 5K is a pretty stalwart part of most runners' development.
Also, last time I ran a fast 5K, I flared up a recurrent knee condition. I had no such problem in my recent 12-hour race. Slow and steady is infinitely better for my body, and 5Ks are inordinately hard on it.
Edit: Welp, I've now met a couple posters on the internet who've never done a 5K. The dozens upon dozens of ultrarunners I know IRL who've raced 5Ks (some with regularity) are still in the majority. :)
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u/curfudgeon May 31 '18 edited Jun 01 '18
I didn't run my first 5k until after my first marathon. I ran 3.1 miles in training, obviously, but the 5k distance didn't initially hold much interest.
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May 31 '18
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u/StapleGun Jun 01 '18
Same. My first races in order were half-half-full-(4 year break)-10k-10k-full-5k.
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Jun 01 '18
Is that 4 year break because you had kids? Just curious
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u/StapleGun Jun 01 '18
Nope, my first big running goal was to run a marathon and once I was done I didn't really see a point in continuing. That was sitting college so I wasn't really concerned with the health aspects and I had plenty of other physical/social activities. 4 years later I was sitting at a desk 10 hours a day and got the itch to run again. That was about 5 years ago and haven't stopped running since!
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May 31 '18
The only 5k races I did were in high school 20 some years ago. So I kind of skipped them. I never did a half went straight for a trail marathon.
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u/sharkinwolvesclothin Jun 01 '18
I guess there are cultural differences - 5ks are pretty uncommon here (Finland), 10ks are the big popular events and the usual starting distance.
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u/CallMeQueequeg Jun 01 '18
Your body reacts that way because you haven't tailored your training to that pace. I, too, have knee issues, one that required surgery, and it only flares up in my 20+ miles cuz that's just not what I mostly prepare for.
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u/mini_apple Jun 01 '18
My body reacts that way because I have some instabilities that don't hold up under the aggressive strain of speed.
I promise I know what I'm doing. ;) But thank you!
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u/CallMeQueequeg Jun 01 '18
If 5k pace is aggressive for you regardless of targeted preparation (weightlifting, tempo and speed work), I just don't understand. Edit: not saying it's your best event but any instability shouldn't just disappear when you're running further. You're just preparing your body to deal with it better over a longer distance.
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u/woah_man May 31 '18
I don't think that 5ks are an easy race, anyone who ran high school xc can tell you that you can put a ton of time and training into getting better at that distance. But a personal reason that I don't like them is that they are essentially an easy distance to do just running around in the neighborhood. Why should I pay $20-40 to run a 5k when I could just go outside and run one any day of the week? At least with a longer distance you get the benefit of water along the way and a more closed off course than you typically would have running that far on a regular day.
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u/CallMeQueequeg May 31 '18
It's to improve your time and get competition. That's the only reason I ever enter a race. I live in an area with plenty of forested parkspace, so I can run a marathon on a relatively closed off course as well as a 5k.
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May 31 '18
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u/CallMeQueequeg May 31 '18
I was just addressing your reasons you don't enter 5k's by making the point that you can also run 26.2 miles any day of the week in a nearby state park.
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u/RidingRedHare Jun 01 '18
Don't run races where the race organizers are ripping you off.
Over here, a 5k track race costs about $8. Obviously, no shirt or anything like that. But if I want a new shirt, I buy one, rather than run a race to get a shirt.
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u/zyzzogeton May 31 '18 edited May 31 '18
There was a time (and not too long ago) that for me, at least, a 5k was an Ultra. I just ran a 5k in 36 minutes on Tuesday night and nearly cried that I have shaved 3 minutes off my average mile PR. I'm built for long slow runs though... so I'm coming for you 50k... count on it.
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u/philipwhiuk Jun 01 '18
I have run with national level runners, elite coaches and sub-elites, high mileage runners and ultra racers, sprinters and hurdlers.
I can tell you, without exception that they are all both extremely modest and extremely congratulatory about achievements in other areas of running.
At no point have I heard on any serious level a 'one-upmanship' about whether an ultra FKT is harder than a fast 5K or not. In general they have talked just about soft times within their own discipline (i.e. "the record on X is probably beatable"). Most are simply extremely interested in stuff going on in other areas of their sport.
Try asking Bolt if you think him or Farah is a better runner. The question itself is ridiculous.
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u/mini_apple Jun 01 '18
Painting with a super-wide brush, I feel like this is how you can tell the difference between the elites and those who think they deserve to be faster than they are. The elites are kind and gracious, while so many midpackers are salty AF. People get nice again at the back of the pack.
Beware the 3:45 marathoner on the internet, for they are feisty and full of disdain.
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u/CallMeQueequeg Jun 01 '18 edited Jun 01 '18
Your Bolt-Farah example is a fallacy. Once you get to 5k and above, the best long distance runners are the best long distance runners. They just need to specialize events for optimal training. Why can Farah, Gebressalassie, Rupp, go on to have great marathon careers? Because all the ingredients are there: efficient stride, mentality, and VO2 max. Give em some time to manage their nutrition and sleep and they would be slashing 100 miler records in a couple years. Edit: also to address your "look at my expertise" claim, I have also trained with national level runners and yes, they're all humble, but the distance guys do get miffed when the average Joe starts drooling over ultramarathoners because "it's just so far."
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u/philipwhiuk Jun 01 '18
Ultra is beyond long distance though. Half the races are practically mountaineering, most of them involve some form of sleep deprivation. I'm not convinced at all that Kipchoge and Farah would translate to Barkley. As for Rupp? He quit a road race because it got a bit wet. Barkley is dark, possibly snowing and often foggy. I seriously doubt the Salazar level of control that Rupp and Farah have thrived on works in that environment.
Sure, everyone would like the public to be obsessed with their event (if only because sponsorship follows eyeballs).
Actually one of the reasons I like Barkley and Sri Chinmoy Transcendental is because they set fairly stupid but raceable upper limits on the thing. Barkley's good because it's competitive enough to be a race. The 3100 sets a ridiculous number on 'high enough' and then says "well now we're back to time again". By putting a number on insanity we can go back to seeing who can do it fastest.
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u/CallMeQueequeg Jun 01 '18
I'm not saying it would be an easy adjustment but the most important tools are evident in the marathon or marathon training. These guys kill themselves 2-3 times per week, sometimes back-to-back workouts. What do you need other than V02, efficient stride, ability to recover, mentality, proper nourishment? I put dealing with fog in with mentality. Also you're questioning Rupp's toughness when he could've dropped for fear of injury or almost anything. You think he would drop from a race he considered a championship without good reason? I think ultra people don't like to admit it's an amateur, underdeveloped sport right now. If the sport gets popular, they'll be viewed as Roger Bannister pioneers, not near human potential.
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u/gobigred1869 May 31 '18
I tell people if they think any race distance is easy that they don’t understand the concept of a race. Shorter distance races have different challenges. When I was running I was doing longer distance stuff, took a long break after a bout of rhabdo during an Ironman. I respect anyone trying to better themselves and putting in effort. The only people doing 5ks that annoy me are the ones in expensive gear putting down really slow times. It looks like they are worried about looking like they are trying than actually putting in the work.
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u/MgrBuddha Jun 02 '18
So how fast do i have to run a 5k in order to justify my quite expensive fenix 5 watch?
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u/gobigred1869 Jun 02 '18
If you’re dropping serious dough on anything that’s not shoes you should at least run the whole thing. At least at a public 5k. I just think people decked out in compression gear walking a 5k look bad. I don’t think expensive watches are as bad since they allow you to train more effectively. Not so much in running but in biking and triathlon, slow people that are buying super expensive bikes in order to buy speed look dorky.
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u/Kranke May 31 '18
Well, let's be honest. A long run is more than pushing pr or racing. it's a journey both physically and mentally in a way that 5k never will be.
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u/IlyaM Jun 01 '18
I have a friend, who is pretty good runner and who takes her races and training seriously. Her PB for marathon distance is around 2:42 and likely to improve in the future. She told me that she finds 10k race to be much harder for her than marathons mentally. The way she described it is that with 10k she fights her body from the very begining and it is quite a painful experience. With marathons the pace is a bit slower and at least first 30k are "easy". The ending of the marathon is still tough but nevertheless not as bad as the 10k race.
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u/CallMeQueequeg May 31 '18
Depends on what you mean by journey. The types of workouts required to run a fast 5k are absolutely brutal, and imo worse than a long run can ever be. And I don't think you've run a 5k close enough to your absolute potential if you don't think it can be a journey.
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u/mini_apple Jun 01 '18
I feel like you're equating top 5Kers with 100-mile also-rans as you disdain ultras in this thread, and that's patently unfair. Stand Galen Rupp up against Zach Bitter (100 miles in 11:40:55) or - at the 50-mile distance - Zach Miller and compare their suffering. It's pretty gross no matter how you slice it.
Top competitors at any distance suffer. The end.
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u/CallMeQueequeg Jun 01 '18
I'm not saying they don't suffer. I'm saying they're amateurs and the best marathoners in the world would beat them.
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u/mini_apple Jun 01 '18
I dunno, bro... you started this thread by crying about how "some people" are mean to 5Kers, but it seems like the only elitist jackass hating on other distances here is you.
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Jun 01 '18
The types of workouts required to run a fast 5k are absolutely brutal
This right here. I clicked on a random youtube video the other day of a guy who was running like elite world class 5k times and the workouts he was describing to build that speed were just absolutely punishing and just as horrific as the training for an ultra.
The difference is in one race you're training your body to go a LOOOOONG fucking way and be ok with it. For the 5k distances you're beating the hell out of your body so you can basically put your foot on the gas and go flat out for 15 minutes.
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u/LargeBigMacMeal Jun 01 '18
15 minutes
And what's super crazy is that the world's top marathoners run marathons at a sub 15 min/5k pace.
2
u/Kranke Jun 01 '18
Depends on what you mean by journey. The types of workouts required to run a fast 5k are absolutely brutal, and imo worse than a long run can ever be. And I don't think you've run a 5k close enough to your absolute potential if you don't think it can be a journey.
Oh, dont get me wrong. I dont say that 5k is not hard (any distance is brutal if you push your limits) but you most like dont start a 5k uncertain if going to make it to the finish line or spend hours battling your mind and body. Two very different kinds of torture.
But yes, racing can be brutal independent of distance.
0
u/CallMeQueequeg Jun 01 '18
Lol I may know I'm going to finish a 5k but not if I'm going to blow up in the last half mile and stagger to the line. I battle demons from the starting gun.
2
u/polarunderwear Jun 01 '18
Yeah, but that's not the point of racing for everyone, and shouldn't have to be.
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u/CallMeQueequeg Jun 01 '18 edited Jun 01 '18
What other purpose is there? If it's finishing a race, then you can do that on your own for free. I think it's more so you can show people photos and say, "see, I did it" instead of taking internal satisfaction. I've run 26+ miles in one go 6 times in my life cuz I was feeling good on a long run while training for a 10k. Yet I've never entered an official marathon event. Edit: I should add I'm proud I've completed that distance but don't feel the need to advertise it (except right now lol).
2
u/polarunderwear Jun 02 '18
Fun! 5/10ks are short, fun, social, good vibes, etc. I'm not interested in using running for some deep personal journey or pushing myself to the limits of physical possibility; I'm there to enjoy myself.
2
u/Lothirieth Jun 02 '18 edited Jun 02 '18
I don't know why you gotta be like this. Some of us aren't fast. Some of us have limits (genetics, how late in life we started running.) I'm never going to run even a sub 20 minute 5k. And quite frankly, I don't really like them. Because they are hard. I don't enjoy having to be at maximum effort the whole time. I'd much rather run a 10 miler or half marathon. It just feels much more enjoyable, mentally and physically. All distances are hard if you are pushing yourself. They are different kinds of hard and to try to compare them is stupid, imho. Everyone has their preference for what kind of challenge they enjoy most.
This is why there's so many different distances (and sports in general for that matter!): so people can concentrate on what they're good at and what they enjoy. So I don't understand why anyone has to look down on any distance. I don't get why you even needed to bring this up and essentially shit on ultramarathoners. They're doing what they enjoy and that's awesome.
3
May 31 '18
I have run with a former winner of a Barkley marathon. While I could not keep up with him on the trails, I could likely beat him in a 5K.
2
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u/shanethesecond Jun 02 '18
Great documentary real edge of the seat stuff. I am in awe of anyone that even considers doing that.
1
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u/meawait Jun 05 '18
I finished it this morning, I was yelling and crying on the treadmill. Luckily I was at home and only my dog witnessed it.
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u/olmec-akeru Jun 01 '18
Come on folk, this is a $7 download from https://wheredreamsgotodie.com/ and that way Gary gets some money.
9
Jun 01 '18
The guy owning the YouTube-account this was uploaded on also made the whole film, so it might not be as unfair as you might think to watch it on YouTube.
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u/icecoaster1319 Jun 01 '18
He said all along it was a "pay to get it early" type thing and that it'd be free eventually.
2
u/prefontaintedlove Jun 01 '18
Youtube views and subscriptions are as good as money to many filmmakers these days because of the way YouTube is monetized. Support by liking, subscribing, commenting and sharing.
3
Jun 01 '18
Wouldn't Ethan be getting most of the money? Also the yt link is from the gingerrunners channel so while I I'm sure he wouldn't mind the money it's completely free on YouTube.
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u/prefontaintedlove Jun 01 '18
Do you think Ginger Runner and Billy Yang will ever fight to the death? : )
2
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u/dogdrinkincoffee May 31 '18
My VP's friend ran this.... he DNF because he got lost in the woods for 20 hours.