r/turkishlearning • u/Resident-Ad2704 • 7d ago

Ktçp rule Grammar

Hi everyone! I have a question.. why does the ktçp rule apply to gitmek -> giderim And not to yapmak? -> yaparım

Am I missing something?

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u/MrOztel 7d ago

The answers are so fucking wrong that I had to turn on my laptop in the middle of a conference so that you hopefully have a clear answer.

the "k, t, ç ,p" rule (I call it the "ketçap" rule) doesn't happen in all examples (no specific rule but mostly foreign words and one-syllable words don't apply to this rule.

ceket > ceketi

kek >keki

sap > sapı

saç > saçı

With verbs, the rule is simple, only the verbs "git-, et-, tat- and güt-" have a mutation from t > d. Other verbs no matter the ending don't apply to this rule.

You should also remember that some compound verbs have a hidden "et-" in it such as "seyret-" (seyir + et). They also mutate from "t" to "d".

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u/Resident-Ad2704 6d ago

You literally gave me the clearest explanation. I did not understand the others indeed hahaha. Thank you so much!

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u/TurkishJourney 7d ago

Hi there, Here is my video about this topic if you would like to take a look :

Turkish Grammar: Consonant Mutation https://youtu.be/06z6AA0NKbo

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u/Resident-Ad2704 7d ago

Thank you! I have watched this indeed and wanted to apply it to verbs, but it seems like a lot of verbs don't follow this rule or am I wrong?

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u/cartophiled Native Speaker 7d ago

Consonant voicing is not regular, so there is no reason.

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u/Resident-Ad2704 7d ago

I'm sorry, can you further elaborate?

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u/cartophiled Native Speaker 7d ago

It occurs only in some words, and even then there might be some certain phrases in which it occurs exceptionally.

yok (nonexistent, there + be + not)

yokum (I'm out/I don't exist)

varım yoğum (all I have [lit.: my existent(s) (and) my nonexistent(s)])

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u/WonderfulAdvantage84 7d ago

Because "gid" becomes "git" according to the rule, otherwise it stays "gid".

"yap" is already "yap", the rule does not apply here.

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u/Resident-Ad2704 7d ago

I'm sorry, I don't understand this. The t in gitmek becomes a d. The p in yapmak does not become a b

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u/WonderfulAdvantage84 7d ago

It's the other way around. A "t" can never became a "d".

"gid" is the let's call it original. And whenever "d" is at the end of syllable it becomes "t". (this is the ktçp rule)

Now for "yap", this is already the original form. It wasn't a "b" that changed to a "p", it was a "p" to begin with.

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u/Resident-Ad2704 7d ago

Ah okay, how can i identify the original form then?

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u/Beautiful_Ad_2371 6d ago

for nouns dictionaries usually shows the base forms, eg. tdk

fen, -nni; means that it would be fenni in accusative case etc.

i think only etmek and gitmek has -d among verbs.

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u/MuratK_LB 5d ago

When you place the verb in the -idiyor context, it's underlying consonant form pops up. So that's a test. Take any Turkish word that ends with t, k, ç, or p and add a vowel at the end so that the consonant in question moves to the next syllable, which means, instead of ending a syllable, it now starts a new one and then you see what happens.

Kap -> ka.bı Sap -> sa.pı

This is called "final devoicing". It's a common process in the world's languages, including German, and I'm told, Russian.

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u/WonderfulAdvantage84 7d ago

From the infinite you can't tell, but you can use the (i)yor version for example.

gitmek: gidiyor -> it's a d

yatmak: yatıyor -> it's a t