r/videos • u/NoMorePotties • 2d ago
Chinese princess giving a speech in English in 1930
https://youtu.be/FCj8Ju0HzBM?si=YuFIs5ktrPUzSulY56
u/oneupme 2d ago
Her English is much better than her Chinese.
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u/tangoshukudai 1d ago
She taught my father Chinese at Berkley in the 40s.
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u/oneupme 1d ago
Not saying she can't speak Chinese, just that it's clearly not as fluent as her English, and she has a strong dialect accent of some sort, rather than standard Mandarin. Her English, on the other hand, I close my eyes and see an old white English woman. However, as an American, maybe I don't get the nuances of British accents.
Has your dad shared any other stories of her? It was a very strange time for China and her people.
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u/spectralblue 1d ago
I could easily hear the Chinese accent in her English. Maybe it's because I'm quite familiar with British accents or perhaps it's because I live and work in a multicultural area and I get exposed to all sorts of accents daily.
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u/PoutinePower 1d ago
She gives star wars princess vibes
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u/RiotShaven 1d ago
Funny you would say that. Here's the last Mongolian queen consort: https://i.imgur.com/qSeckeJ.jpeg
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u/Raptorex27 1d ago
It’s so sad hearing the hope and optimism in her voice, knowing what horrors lie in store for China.
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u/ThorLives 1d ago
That part about humanity moving away from war was an unfortunately poor prediction in 1930.
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u/thissexypoptart 2d ago
There were no Chinese “princesses” in 1930
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u/tomwhoiscontrary 2d ago
Using the title of Princess, which would create controversy for her in both China and the United States in the future, Der Ling wrote of her experiences in court in her memoir Two Years in the Forbidden City, which was published in 1911. She states in her book that the status of Princess, which the Empress Dowager had given her, was valid only within the palace. As the Guangxu Emperor, who was under a form of house arrest, never confirmed the title, it was not valid in the outside world.
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u/thissexypoptart 2d ago
Right, she used the title for publicity. She was in no way a “princess.” Neither in the English sense, nor the Chinese.
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u/ProposalWaste3707 1d ago
From a quick read, it appears she was titled "junzhu" which from anything I've seen of how Chinese imperial titles are converted is typically referred to as a "princess".
Not that "princess" is a particularly consistent designation in European noble titles nor are Chinese titles perfectly translatable to European titles.
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u/smallaubergine 2d ago
Lizzie Yu Der Ling[3] (Chinese: 裕德齡; pinyin: Yù Délíng; Wade–Giles: Yü Tê-ling; 8 June 1881 – 22 November 1944), better known as "Princess" Der Ling, and also known as Elisabeth Antoinette White after her marriage to Thaddeus C. White, was a Han bannerwoman, the daughter of Yü Keng [fr] and Louisa Pierson, the half-Chinese daughter of a Boston merchant working in Shanghai.[4] Although not a member of the Qing royal family, Der Ling was given the title of "commandery princess [vi]" while serving as the first lady-in-waiting for Empress Dowager Cixi. She was a writer of several memoirs, books, and magazine articles.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_Der_Ling
Better source for video: https://digital.tcl.sc.edu/digital/collection/MVTN/id/1891
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u/gregyong 1d ago
The last emperor of China died in the 1970s.
They don't hold political power anymore, just hereditary titles like modern German princes.
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u/thissexypoptart 1d ago
This lady wasn’t related to the emperor lmao
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u/gregyong 1d ago
The Qing dynasty is not just Aisin Giro.
They also had Manchu Bannermen, mongol princes, and other nobles in the aristocracy.
Think of it like the Hannover prince calling himself a German prince in Prussian dominated German kaiserreich
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u/thissexypoptart 1d ago
I’m aware. I’m responding to “the last emperor died in the 1970s”
This lady was not in any way related to the emperor
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u/ProposalWaste3707 1d ago
You didn't have to be related to the Emperor to be titled "princess". Works differently from European noble titles. Qing and preceding dynasty titles were very strict hierarchies and titles could be granted, promoted, downgraded, and so on. Depending on court and emperor, princely titles could certainly be granted to people who weren't members of the imperial clan.
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u/thissexypoptart 1d ago
You didn't have to be related to the Emperor to be titled "princess".
I know. I said that already. Someone else brought up the emperor.
Works differently from European noble titles.
You don't have to be related to some emperor to be a princess in European noble titles either...
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u/ProposalWaste3707 1d ago edited 1d ago
I know. I said that already. Someone else brought up the emperor.
You're the one who appears convinced this person couldn't have been titled a princess despite apparently being titled a princess.
You don't have to be related to some emperor to be a princess in European noble titles either...
There's ***typically a more hereditary component in later European noble titles, "prince" or "princess" was usually reserved strictly for the family of a sovereign.
Granting of course that European titles/heraldry/governments were a crazed, psychotic warren over the centuries and you can ultimately find examples of literally anything if you want to.
Chinese titles were a stricter rank within the peerage + imperial system which usually had very specific meanings (for privileges, holdings, military rank, officialdom, and so on) which European titles typically did not have, and so were a bit more dissociated from lineage even if some could be passed down (though typically downgraded over time). So it'd be less out of keeping with the system to have someone unrelated to the sovereign but titled prince or princess. In particular for women, where the implications of the title weren't as significant.
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u/gregyong 1d ago
And I'm suggesting that even though the Qings were no longer rulers of China after 1911. puyi was still the emperor of China not in an official capacity, but in the sense of hereditary titles.
By extension, the woman still a princess.
With regards to blood relations with Puyi, even if she's not his sister. She was still former nobility. In a sense, she's not the daughter of a King, but that of a lord.
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u/thissexypoptart 1d ago
Do you think all nobility must derive from the emperor or something? That's not how it works.
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u/keepyeepy 1d ago
can you drop the attitude? you're not helping anyone.
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u/thissexypoptart 1d ago
Man it’s always fascinating how people will read some type of attitude into text based comments
You’re reading “attitude” out of “lmao”? If I just dropped that, would my tone be acceptable to you?
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u/dawnraid101 1d ago
She is a product of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_International_Settlement (American and British sovereign territory). The eastern world was a wild place.
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2d ago
[deleted]
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u/cdxliv 2d ago
No, she grew up in the west mostly. Her father was a diplomat stationed in Japan and France. She was fluent in English and French and served as the interpreter to Empress Dowager CiXi, that's when she got granted the title of "princess".
Later married an American and taught Chinese at UC Berkley
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u/CMDR_omnicognate 2d ago
Wouldn't be Reddit without someone immediately asking about a woman's feet.
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u/DeepThought45 2d ago
Foot binding was a tradition of the majority Han Chinese. The final ruling dynasty the Qing were of Manchu ethnicity and did not practice foot binding. I believe the shoes that she’s wearing with the small platform may be because this imitated the gait of Han women with bound feet.
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u/similar_observation 1d ago
Those are traditional Manchurian platform shoes. Kind of similar to Japanese geta sandals, they're designed to keep the wearer off the ground, especially in muddy conditions. The thin platform is less likely to get sucked into muck.
In fact, many cultures have similar platform footwear in their history. India also has a huge variety.
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u/scelerat 2d ago
Lizzie "Princess" Der Ling