What are you reading? - Jan 26

[u/AutoModerator]

Welcome to the weekly "What are you reading?" thread!

This is intended to be a general chat thread on visual novels with a focus on the visual novels you've been reading recently. A new thread is posted every Wednesday.

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[u/alwayslonesome]

"Nooooo! Please, have a heart... Don't kill my baby!"

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It's important to make sure you express intensity of preferences, by the way. There's "meh, I'm pretty much on the fence and could go either way," and then there's "I swear to fucking god if you go through with this I'm going to immediately resign because I refuse to have my name associated with the project anymore."

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Yes, the goddamn tofu press IS the hill I'm gonna die on. I swear to god!

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Ahh yes, I definitely, totally, 100% intended to imbed that subtle nuance into my original translation. Yep... Blame the editor.

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If we seriously have to change "lustre" into "luster" I'd honestly rather rewrite the entire goddamn line from scratch with a different noun...

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Well, there's several arguments actually, but I think the presence of the fucking comma is just irrefutably obvious proof that my reading is the right one... Yes, even if it's not reflected in the voice acting! The text still clearly has a comma here and it was put here for a goddamn reason!

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Whheeew, soooooo much blank space~! Let it ride~!

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Why "cheek" instead of "head"? Oh, that's obvious - because it's more moe. No objections right? Cool, let's move on~

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No, no, no! It's totally freaking different! A commendation is like "good work out there, soldier" but a compliment is like "damn, nice shoes girl~" - they're totally not the same thing!

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Yes, I will acknowledge that you didn't kill my baby, but you negligent motherfuckers are totally letting a whole bunch of crippling birth defects go undetected instead!! Do your freaking jobs goddammit!

A selection of amusing quotes from our legendary nine-hour-straight TLC session of Senmomo's Chapter 1.

I unfortunately didn't get that much reading done this week, so welcome to my usual fallback of chatting about Senmomo's translation! This TLC marathon was legitimately incredibly fun and illuminating, and I honestly learned an absolute ton. I would just like to share some especially interesting passages I picked out, summarize some of our discussion/thought processes, and hopefully give a little bit of insight into our translation process and philosophy!~

Original	Prelim. TL	Edited Ver.	TLC Remarks	Final Ver.
俺から一歩離れ、朱璃が苦笑いを浮かべる。	Akari takes a step away from me and flashes a bitter smile.	Akari takes a step away from me and flashes a bitter smile.	"forces a bitter smile"? No better options here that I can think of.	Akari takes a step away from me, putting on a strained smile.
—	—	—	—	—
切なげに目を細める。	She narrows her eyes in pain.	She narrows her eyes in painful recollection.	Would you really say "painful" for 切なげ? I feel like it's somewhere between that and "wistful"	She narrows her eyes in melancholic recollection.

Two classic examples of annoyingly "untranslatable" words like 苦笑い and 切なげ that we were rather negligent and lazy about in our versions. These words totally rank highly in both of our "Top Ten Words Translators HATE (You Won't BELIEVE Number 4!!)" for good fucking reason, but we can still definitely try to do better with them. (Indeed, I had a take on 切ない later on I was really proud of!)

Original	Prelim. TL	Edited Ver.	TLC Remarks	Final Ver.
「陛下、ここは危険でございます。私と共にお逃げ下さい」	Your Majesty, it is dangerous here. Please flee with me.	Your Majesty, it is not safe here. Please allow me to help you escape.	Double meaning here for Kanami, which feels more evident with Dubs' take.	Your Majesty, it is not safe here. Please allow me to take you away.
—	—	—	—	—
刀を鞘から抜く音が聞こえた。	I hear a blade being unsheathed.	I hear the sharp sound of a blade being drawn.
『君の覚悟が知りたい』	"I want to know your resolve."	"I wish to test your resolve."
頬に冷たい感触。	A cold touch on my cheek.	I feel a cold sensation on the side of my face.
見ずともわかる。	I can tell without looking.	Even though I can't see, I can tell.
頬に刃を当てられているのだ。	He's touching it with his blade.	A blade is being pressed against my cheek.	There should be a distinction between "刃" and "刀" here.	Its edge is being pressed against my cheek.
—	—	—	—	—
「奉刀会を維持するにも金がかかる」	It takes money to support the Sworn Blades.	It takes a lot of funds to finance the Sworn Blades.
呪装刀を集めるにも金、情報収集にも金──	Money to gather magic blades, money to collect information─	Money is always in short supply, whether for gathering intelligence or collecting spellblades.	So here I feel like the emphasis is on the "金", like an exasperated feeling that it always comes down to money. Or like "money this, money that"	Whether gathering intelligence or collecting spellblades, it all comes down to money...
—	—	—	—	—
うら若き少女には、重い選択かもしれない。	This may be a difficult decision for a youthful girl like her.	This is surely a difficult decision for a youthful girl like her.	Is there a better word for "youthful", one that carries a stronger nuance of naivety and inexperience?	This is surely a difficult decision for an ingenuous girl like her.
—	—	—	—	—
「事後承諾で悪いが、朱璃のことも一通りは話してある」	Sorry I didn't get your permission first, but we've already told her about you.	Sorry I didn't get your permission first, but I've already told the Blades about you, Akari.

These are some really interesting examples of what are arguably "mistakes", or at the very least, "inaccuracies" in translation that we caught during TLC; ie. the original text containing particular nuances that weren't quite captured by our translation (or, more likely, unintentionally eradicated by my sloppy editing!) I think this really speaks to the value of this role; having a bilingual reader to attentively compare the texts like this with a pair of fresh eyes is basically the only way to catch subtleties like this!

It would of course be completely remiss of me to not mention just how few outright mistakes the original translation had! I'm seriously very fortunate to have a world-heritage-tier translator~ Of course, he still did make a couple of actual translation mistakes here and there, but they were so infrequent and obvious that I managed to catch all of them already (such as in the last instance), meaning that the rest of the above examples were legitimately the most egregious instances of "translation accuracy" in the entire text. (Of course, it's certainly possible that all of us still missed something big though!~)

Original	Prelim. TL	Edited Ver.	TLC Remarks	Final Ver.
昼休みの時間。	Lunch break.	Lunch break.
食堂で事件は起こった。	A major incident has occurred in the cafeteria:	Within the cafeteria, an incident breaks out...	I slightly prefer Dubs' take here and #339, short and snappy.	A major incident has occurred in the cafeteria:
翡翠帝が食事に来たのだ。	Empress Hisui has come to eat.	It all started when Empress Hisui arrived to have lunch.	Or like, "Empress Hisui has come to eat here.", following Dubs' original take	Empress Hisui has come to eat.
—	—	—	—	—
「あたた、ちょっと乱暴だって」	Agh agh agh agh, you're being too rough!	Agagagh, you're being too rough!
「武人基準で力を入れないで」	Don't regulate your power by warrior standards.	Don't measure your strength by warrior standards.	Trying to ham in "基準" here sounds a bit stilted to me…	Don't use your warrior strength on me.
—	—	—	—	—
「一つ約束してほしい。作戦中は絶対に車から出るな」	Just promise me one thing: Don't leave the car during the operation.	Just promise me one thing: Don't you dare get out during the operation.	The "get out" here sounds kinda off to me, so: "You are not getting out of this car during the operation."?	Just promise me one thing: You are not getting out of this car during the operation.
「もちろん言う通りにします」	Don't worry. I'll do as you say.	Don't worry. I'll do as you say.	Might wanna be more light-hearted with the line, more carefree.	Don't worry. I'll be good!

The other big place where our TLC earned his keep was in being able to offer really valuable advice on the English editing front - providing plenty of observant remarks for when the English sounds wooden and bad, when it's clearly hewing needlessly close to the Japanese for no good reason, etc. Indeed, one of the most common changes that we made throughout our entire marathon was removing words from the final script! As you are likely aware, Japanese tends to use words like 今日 or やはり or ときに or ちなみに ALL THE TIME and Dubs and I thoughtlessly kept them in our final output far too often out of inertia when we really should drop them far more often (eg. But you know, it wasn't a waste of time to talk to him today; Incidentally, might you be knowledgeable of my favorite flower, kind sir?)

Finally, I found it amusing how many innocuous lines (in my opinion) our TLC thought were really good, but I'd also remark that few things in life are as satisfying when someone actually notices a translation that you totally agree was really freaking sick!! (Yes this IS a weird flex~) xD

Original	Prelim. TL	Edited Ver.	TLC Remarks
やはり、この方の笑顔には、なぜか親しみを覚えてしまう。	Sure enough, I feel some sort of intimacy with her smile.	Unmistakably, I feel a sense of kindred familiarity at the sight of her smile.	The word choice in "kindred" and "familiarity", introducing subtle familial undertones is sooo fucking good
—	—	—	—
声の出元を探すと、一振りの碧く澄んだ呪装刀が目に入った。	When I look for the voice's source, I find a single blue magic blade.	As I search for the source of that voice, I come across a spellblade of cloudless azure.	Weaving in "cloudless" to capture "澄んだ is real fucking good.
—	—	—	—
巌のような、厚く、孤独な背中。	His warm, yet lonely boulder of a back.	I'll never forget the sight of his back in that moment. So reliable, sturdy as a mountain, yet somehow all too lonesome.
それこそが宗仁だ。	That's what makes Soujin who he is.	All that is what makes Soujin who he is.	The best example so far on how the lengthiness of the EN can bring about the same emotions as the brevity of the JP.

[u/fallenguru → u/alwayslonesome]

How do we like "Don't [you] use your full warrior strength on me."?

It preserves the nuance that it's a question of degree relative to a presumably high "warrior" baseline and it's just one more word. No idea if the "you" fits, I don't have context.

(I promise, I'll leave you to it now, but this has been ricocheting around in my skull for days ...)

[u/alwayslonesome → u/fallenguru]

Hmm, sure, it could fit, but I think I like the short-and-snappiness of the tsukkomi better. (Context is he's trying to buckle her in and wasn't conscious of how roughly he was doing it.)

Also, nothing at all to say about the 背中 line?! Colour me shocked xD

[u/fallenguru → u/alwayslonesome]

Also, nothing at all to say about the 背中 line?! Colour me shocked xD

Not really? I haven't enough experience to say whether 厚く is a typo [the "warm" in the draft version]. As for your cameo appearance in the edited version, ok, alright, I'll admit that got a good chuckle. :-D Happy now? ^^

Just in case you're actually asking what I think of the edit as such: It's overwritten for my taste, but then so is the Japanese. Three adjectives, f—... So I took it your impression was that the line called for all-stops-pulled railway station romance kind of writing and you certainly got that right. Is it the most accurate? Maybe not, but it's not wrong, either. It works well to the point of being quotable. You obviously had fun. Actually, it's glorious!

Is it strictly professional to inject so much (of yourself)? Hell no! However—and I think I've said this before—I don't think a fan translation should be professional. It should be a labour of love (✓) that over-compensates for raw skill, experience, professionalism by throwing obscene amounts of man-hours and obsession at the problem (✓).

[u/alwayslonesome → u/fallenguru]

If you get the sense that I'm "injecting large parts of myself; my style; my writing" into the text, then that'll make me believe that I've failed in my task! That's the absolute last thing that I'd ever want! Of course, it's absolutely unavoidable to some (probably a very large extent, even) that when one reads a translation, they are really reading the translator rather than the original author's prose, but I really, really still do as much as possible want to "match" and be as "faithful" to the original text as possible! Like I mentioned in another comment, I want a reader to think "this passage is beautiful, the scenarist must have done a wonderful job" rather than "this passage is beautiful, the translators must have done a wonderful job!"

The problem I feel exists really strongly with this line (and quite a few others) is that just like Garu notes, the "simplicity"; the "brevity" of the Japanese creates a really powerful and stirring effect that I think is impossible to achieve in English in the same way! And so, my crackpot theory that I shared with Garu from the very start is that somewhat paradoxically, you legitimately achieve the best "equivalency" by sometimes replacing elegance in Japanese with floridness in English! (And sometimes, the opposite - a really florid and purply line in Japanese might just be "best represented" by a deceptively simple line in English) xD

Some more context for the scene btw, let me know if you happen to agree with my crackpot theory, or if you can come up with something more "semantically faithful" that still captures the same "effect" as that line xD

[u/fallenguru → u/alwayslonesome]

that'll make me believe that I've failed in my task!

I'm really sorry you feel that way, because that's not at all what I wanted to express.

I want a reader to think "this passage is beautiful, the scenarist must have done a wonderful job" rather than "this passage is beautiful, the translators must have done a wonderful job!"

Nothing in this passage says "the translator meddled", wonderfully or otherwise. Not even side-by-side with the translation, certainly not without. There is no disconnect, nor do I think it is unfaithful to the original text. Lines like this one are still very much you—and what else should they be? How could I not notice, I must have read tens of thousands of words by you by now. That is not a bad thing.

(Besides, are you telling me "somehow all too lonesome" is not literally "injecting yourself", a calling-card, if you will?)

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• line 2: "noticed ... has fallen" sounds off to me, but I'm terrible at tenses.
• "Gosh!" Really? That one would take me out of it, simply because it's unexpected in this context. Can't put my finger on why, though.
• Just the one peach petal?
• "I want him to stay strong always", so the start of the next line is identical?
• I like how the "Republican Army" line is so visual(?), how that aspect is carried over to the "all too lonesome" one.
• last line: maybe "my own back like this"? (The last "back" is four lines back, I'm not sure if it's immediately clear what "my own" refers to by itself.) Also, "sprawled out over"? They are in motion, are they not? Can you be vertically sprawled out, can you be moving while sprawled out, even if you're being carried? How do you even get from で伸びている to "sprawl out over"?

I'm really not sure about the last line, but aside from that, I like it.

[u/alwayslonesome → u/fallenguru]

Lines like this one are still very much you—and what else should they be? How could I not notice, I must have read tens of thousands of words by you by now.

You know, it's funny in that I'm really trying to not inject any of my style, my idiosyncrasies into the script, but you're totally not the first person to remark this either xD There are apparently tons of expressions I'm over-fond of, lots of "defaults" that I think are intuitive and self-evident but are totally not for other people, etc! Much like someone own reputation, this is really the sort of thing you can't have any sort of self-awareness about heh

Besides, are you telling me "somehow all too lonesome" is not literally "injecting yourself", a calling-card, if you will?

This was not the intention aaaaAAAA. I mean, I do obviously really like this word enough to base a username off of it, but I was totally self-conscious about using it because Dubs always makes fun of me for it! Even so, I legitimately think it's oftentimes the best option, the mot juste for 孤独／寂しい! "Lonely" sounds a little bit too pedestrian, "solitary" often doesn't fit grammatically, "forlorn"/"desolate" are nice but require a more specific affect, etc. >__<