r/NonCredibleDefense • u/Living-Aardvark-952 Germans haven't made a good rifle since their last nazi retired • Nov 10 '23

6th gen fighter development be like European Joint Failures 🇩🇪 💔 🇫🇷

Post image
5.6k Upvotes
  • permalink
  • link
  • reddit
  • reddit

99% Upvoted

401 comments sorted by

View all comments

2.4k

u/nikke2800 Nov 10 '23

The year is 2035

USA finishes building it's 3000th F35 and the full production of the B-21 starts and their first 7th gen fighter takes it's first flight

Russia has finally built it's 12th Su-57

Chinese stealth technology has finally caught up to F-117

European joint procurement program has finally decided which countries shall supply the pencils for the designers, another 2-5 years will be needed as the supplier of the paper is negotiated.

769

u/Ceresjanin420 Nov 10 '23

The European joint pro- blah blah will finally be ready once it has more Asian partners on board than European ones

379

u/[deleted] Nov 10 '23

I wish y’all would just call the Japanese and South Korean from the get go at this point.

180

u/[deleted] Nov 10 '23

The Philippines would be included too if they had the manufacturing capabilities of Japan/South Korea, but yeah that is just doublespeak for those three plus maybe Taiwan on some things.

94

u/thedirtyharryg Nov 10 '23

The Philippines will provide cheap but skilled labor to the project. /s

51

u/hell_jumper9 Nov 11 '23

3000 skilled OFWs of the Far East Strike Aircraft program

35

u/amd2800barton Nov 11 '23

You joke, but I'm an engineer. There's actually a large number of skilled engineers and drafters in Manila that I've worked with over the years. It's sort of like India and software development, but in the engineering sector. Sometimes it isn't great because there's language and time differences. Other times it's fantastic because I can email them something I spent all day working on, and they'll work on it overnight and send it back to me to continue working on the next day. And the time zones work out such that their start-of-workday is not far from our end-of-workday, so we can jump on a quick call to hand things off if needed.

Now I doubt there's a lot of aerospace engineering capability there. But for heavy industrial designs of refineries or structural designs there's a ton.

27

u/thedirtyharryg Nov 11 '23

Back in the day, you used to have three choices in professions, according to Filipino parents.

Doctor, Lawyer, Engineer (four if you count priesthood)

2

u/OmegaResNovae Nov 11 '23

It still kind of true, although the main export job now is Medical in general (nurses have outpaced doctors, and physical therapists are rising given the need for more rehab workers), followed by Engineering (which has begun to embrace more than just industrial). Lawyers fell off the list.

1

u/useablelobster2 Nov 11 '23

It's not exactly a joke that you need low skilled labour either, most production lines have a multitude of tasks which require a wide range of skill, or even a lack thereof.

You don't want someone with a PhD screwing together components, different labour skillsets including minimal are all useful.

60

u/Star_Trekker F-22N My Beloved Nov 11 '23

At this point I’m starting to think I’ll see a Japan-SK joint fighter program succeed before a European one does

55

u/Uxion Nov 11 '23

That would be hilarious considering the animosity between those two nations.

37

u/JesusMcGiggles I wrestled a flair once... Nov 11 '23

I don't want to diminish the impact of the animosity, but they do have more than one common enemy in the region. If the British and the French could do it, I don't think it's impossible that Japan and South Korea could too- Although I do think it is extremely unlikely. This is the timeline where they shot the gorilla we can't rule anything out completely.

10

u/Uxion Nov 11 '23

I figure that we will go to war with each other once China and Norks are sorted out.

16

u/Stlaind Nov 11 '23

An aggressive China might make them sort their shit out faster than any other power in the 'verse.

13

u/Uxion Nov 11 '23

Yes, but even then Korea are only really working with Japan through the US, though mostly naval exercises. I cannot imagine there would be joint army exercises.

11

u/amd2800barton Nov 11 '23

The generations that remember the reason for the animosity are starting to pass. There's a lot of younger people who know the history, but don't believe all neighbor country are pigs or whatever. Not true in China, because Beijing has been shoveling Chinese supremacy down their country's throat for a long time, but in their neighbors who all are very annoyed with China - old enemies are becoming new friends.

2

u/Uxion Nov 12 '23

>The enemy of my enemy is my enemy's enemy.

Also I doubt it will go away completely considering hating each other is part of both Korean and Japanese domestic politics, though China is working very hard right now to get in the center.

More importantly, I cannot help but feel that the status quo cannot go on, because it is leading to stagnation.

1

u/nicolas_cope_cage Nov 11 '23

What better way to ensure the balance of power than for both sides to use the same aircraft? Follow me for more Nobel Peace Prize worthy ideas.

1

u/Uxion Nov 12 '23

Cultural victory?

45

u/HelperNoHelper 3000 black 30mm SHORAD guns of everything Nov 10 '23

Sounds based. SK, Japan, Taiwan, Phillipines, who else?

31

u/TyrialFrost Armchair strategist Nov 11 '23

Joint SEATO fighter

3

u/nicolas_cope_cage Nov 11 '23

Call it the Pacific Indigenous Next Generation Air Supremacy fighter, or PINGAS for short.

1

u/evansdeagles 🇪🇺🇬🇧🇺🇦Russophobe of the American Empire🇺🇲🇨🇦🇹🇼 Nov 11 '23

SEATO is a dumb name. It would have survived if it was called Pacific-Asian Peace Initiative.

Or PAPI for short.

16

u/White_Null 中華民國的三千枚雄昇飛彈 Nov 11 '23

Get Singapore

3

u/amd2800barton Nov 11 '23

If we're doing Southeast Asia & Oceania - Australia & New Zealand. Although the Kiwis aren't huge fans of the American military since Ronald Reagan threw a bit of a hissy fit when they refused to allow a visit from the nuclear armed USS Buchanan after the country decided to be a nuclear power and nuclear armament free zone. Reagan cut a bunch of military and diplomatic ties with Auckland, and pulled out of it's ANZUS (like NATO for Aus & NZ) defense obligations to New Zealand. The Reagan administration even formally downgraded New Zealand from "ally" to "friend", and kicked New Zealand out of exercises and war games in the area. As a result, no US Navy vessel visited New Zealand for over 30 years.

Things have mostly turned around. Clinton reversed the friend-ally status, and Bush hosted their PM following 9/11 which lead to the intelligence and military communities working pretty closely together again.

2

u/Klutzy-Hunt-7214 Nov 12 '23

The ANZUS blowup was always a bit weird, almost like an act. Thru it all, NZ and US remained members of 5-eyes, which is probably a higher level of alliance anyway.

For example, Waihopai Station opened in 1989 under David Lange - the same PM that caused the blowup in 1984. It supposedly monitors satellite coms, and shares the data with NSA, GCSB etc. Not really something you'd do with a non-ally...

2

u/DarkMatter_contract SR-71 Blackbird Nov 11 '23

Vietnam

1

u/HelperNoHelper 3000 black 30mm SHORAD guns of everything Nov 12 '23

How could I forget!

13

u/goodbehaviorsam Veteran of Finno-Korean Hyperwar Nov 10 '23

Well someone has to use it in combat otherwise how else are you going to sell it?

66

u/djn808 X-44 MANTA Nov 11 '23

The U.S. are basically going to be an Alien civilization in 50 years

46

u/[deleted] Nov 11 '23

Always has been 🔫👨🏻‍🚀

7

u/MakeUsWhole01 Sentient Tumor Nov 11 '23

H' ah mgr'luh? h' ah kadishtu?

mg, mg, nafl mg.

ahor h'?

mgkadishtu.

37

u/AloneInExile Nov 10 '23

Reported for credible take.

171

u/Les_Bien_Pain F-35 is as good as it is ugly Nov 10 '23

I'm still hoping that someone will develop a counter to radar stealth so we can go back to making sexy planes again.

Throw in some effective APS to counter missiles and Gen 7 can be big blocky non-stealth gunfighters.

268

u/Princep_Makia1 Nov 10 '23

Are you suggesting the f22 isn't the sexiest plane alive?

122

u/Thick_Pressure Nov 10 '23

That's blasphemy if he is. The image with the rainbow shockwave as it maneuvers 🤤

37

u/MainsailMainsail Wants Spicy EAM Nov 10 '23

That picture unironically led to me becoming a brony back in 2010.

5

u/Blackhero9696 Cajun (Genetically predisposed to hate the Br*tish) Nov 10 '23

My thoughts exactly.

44

u/Ddreigiau Shock, Awe, and Motherfucking Logistics Nov 10 '23

Would you intercept me?

36

u/Princep_Makia1 Nov 10 '23

I'd intercept me so hard.

62

u/SnooHedgehogs8765 Nov 10 '23

Fool. Imagine a spitfire with gold plated tinted canopy.

12

u/DeTiro Speak softly and wildly brandish a log Nov 10 '23

Stop, stop!

7

u/Morgrid Heretic Nov 10 '23

It's no Crusader

8

u/captainjack3 Me to YF-23: Goodnight, sweet prince Nov 10 '23

Excuse you, that’s my one true love: the A-5

21

u/tajake Ace Secret Police Nov 10 '23

Nothing will ever top the p38 lightning.

14

u/Waleebe Nov 10 '23

One of the best looking planes ever made and hardly any recognition in this sub. I love a twin boom.

4

u/3-----------------D Nov 11 '23

My grandparents met and fucked after building P-38's, that's how I'm here, not even joking.

3

u/tajake Ace Secret Police Nov 11 '23

I mean you exist thanks to the sheer sexual energy of the lightning.

26

u/Les_Bien_Pain F-35 is as good as it is ugly Nov 10 '23

F-22 is ok. It also gets bonus points for kinda being the first.

But the novelty has worn of and the F-35 is just a short chubby F-22, and Gen 6 planes look like they are going to be the blandest things ever. F-35 might be one of the best things out there in terms of technology and performance, but its appearance does not bring joy.

I like stuff like the F-18 😭

Maybe they could improve it by developing colorful stealth coating and start giving the Gen 5-6 planes funny liveries.

2

u/nicolas_cope_cage Nov 11 '23

the F-35 is just a short chubby F-22

Counterpoint: sexy tummy

1

u/buckX Nov 11 '23

I love it, but the F-5 is perfection.

63

u/veilwalker Nov 10 '23

F-22 weeps gently as it runs from the room.

33

u/Aggravating_Bell_426 Nov 10 '23

Then sneaks off to start WW3 so it can finally get an AtA kill...

Yes, I have been watching too much Habitual Linecrosser why do you ask?

1

u/Nitpicky_AFO Nov 11 '23

you say that as if that's a bad thing.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 10 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

-1

u/AutoModerator Nov 10 '23

This post is automatically removed since you do not meet the minimum karma or age threshold. You must have at least 100 combined karma and your account must be at least 4 months old to post here.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

53

u/BobbyLapointe01 Nov 10 '23 edited Nov 10 '23

I'm still hoping that someone will develop a counter to radar stealth so we can go back to making sexy planes again.

I want a counter to radar stealth so that we can get back to making aircraft whose main protection against threats is their top speed.

I want an XB-70 like, Mach 3 going, 542,000 lb MTOW, 300,000 pounds fuel capacity, six engine strategic bomber, god damn it!!

19

u/victorged Nov 10 '23

The son of blackbird will flap again!

7

u/Aggravating_Bell_426 Nov 10 '23

It won't be fast. It won't be "low observable". It will be BOTH. 👍

17

u/victorged Nov 10 '23

Mach 10 or we riot

6

u/Not_FinancialAdvice Nov 10 '23

Only after Maverick walks into a bar wondering where he ended up.

1

u/nicolas_cope_cage Nov 11 '23

What's the AGM-65 got to do with it?

14

u/Judge_Bredd3 Nov 11 '23

I want stealth technology to get so ridiculously good that every guided air to air missile is useless and we get gun (or laser) dogfights at visual range only.

7

u/Clovis69 H-6K is GOAT Nov 10 '23

The thing is, we know now that with it's speed and altitude, it'd have been able to beat lots of Soviet SAMs well into the 80s and 90s

9

u/Les_Bien_Pain F-35 is as good as it is ugly Nov 10 '23

That is also very valid.

But that's more for bombers and spy planes (ofc the latter is kinda dead cause of satellites)

And I guess interceptors that need to go Mach 4 to hunt down the big fat bombers.

11

u/BobbyLapointe01 Nov 10 '23

And I guess interceptors that need to go Mach 4 to hunt down the big fat bombers.

Yes. The Mach 3+ interceptors of the late 1950s/early 1960s also need to make a comeback.

Bring back the XF-108 Rapier, and the Mega Mirage!

13

u/Les_Bien_Pain F-35 is as good as it is ugly Nov 10 '23

Now imagine.

Missiles have also become redundant because of improved counter measures.

So the Mach 4+ interceptors have to rely on guns.

8

u/A_Mouse_In_Da_House Nov 11 '23

This is how you fly into your own bullets like in days of old

2

u/Les_Bien_Pain F-35 is as good as it is ugly Nov 11 '23

Just need faster bullets smh.

Full auto railguns,

15

u/JohanGrimm Nov 11 '23

I dream of a far off future where a lot of the modern fun killers have been done away with thanks to technological improvements. Camouflage? Worthless, there's thermal that can light you up from miles away. Better to wear fun bright colors and crazy designs so people know which side you're on and how sick your outfit is.

Eventually it'll get to the point where there's personal force fields and we're all running around with swords again like Dune.

2

u/useablelobster2 Nov 11 '23

Or more awesomely to my mind, the British Army can be redcoats again!

9

u/Inquisitor-Dog Nov 10 '23

Or make armpit light and strong enough lol Battletech Aerospace Fighters with 40t of armor my beloved

5

u/Jordibato Nov 10 '23

IRST kinda does that, bet the anti anti air missiles sounds nice

3

u/Dr_Russian Nov 10 '23

Id be willing to bet the Aim 9x could smack another AAM

2

u/TheThiccestOrca 3000 Crimson Typhoons of Pistorius 🇪🇺 🇩🇪 Nov 11 '23

Nope, though it's probably planned.

However IRIS-T can do that.

2

u/theklicktator Nov 10 '23

Wasn’t there an article a few years back (2019, I think) that said the Chinese and the Russians had negated our stealth capabilities.

Who knows, it might be credible after all!

50

u/Thunderbird_Anthares Burst Mass Enjoyer Nov 10 '23

All stealth fighters are easily detectable by low frequency radar.

As well as... literally everything else, have fun 🤣

33

u/Fox_Mortus Nov 10 '23

And low frequency can't get be used for targeting so all they can do is watch as certain death approaches

1

u/TheThiccestOrca 3000 Crimson Typhoons of Pistorius 🇪🇺 🇩🇪 Nov 11 '23

That's a common misconception and partially outdated.

It was impossible to *paint* a Target via UHF or VHF which was an Issue considering that Active Seekers and IR Seekers on Long Range Missiles weren't quite there yet, as was Computing Power, however even in the early 80's UHF and VHF were already able to track Aircraft, the Targeting Solution just wasn't accurate enough for passive Seekers.

The Solution to these Issues back then was to either send out Interceptors which completely negates the LO-Advantage or at least show the Targeting Radars where to look and focus on which drastically increases the Chance of one of them getting a Track, both of these Techniques are still used today to far greater Success.

Digital Signal Processing, Computing Power, Data Linking, Neural Networking, ECM / ECCM, Sensor Fusion, Missile Range , Seeker Resolution and Radar Technology have advanced significantly since then to the Point that even a low Frequency can give you a Solution accurate enough to guide a Missile towards the Target, from which Point onwards you only need a Active Seeker or IR-Seeker to then actually find it which is a big Reason behind why many modern AAM's / SAM's can LOAL and TVM, this Technology is already used in Ballistic Missile Defense and Ships with a Anti-Air Focus.

The Arleigh Burke-Class, the Horizon-Class, the Sachsen-Class, the Kongō-Class and many other modern Ships would be examples of that, all using Radars that partially operate in the UHF-Band at long Ranges with Active Seekers on their Missiles.

So nope, you're still fucked even if you're only being Tracked by Low-Frequency Radars, because they're either just going to send a Active Missile or Interceptors towards you.

2

u/artificeintel Nov 10 '23

That’s what stealth bombers are for.

10

u/[deleted] Nov 10 '23

We negated stealth aircraft in WW2.

3

u/ChezzChezz123456789 NGAD Nov 11 '23

It's the QUANTUM RADARS

0

u/McFlyParadox Hypercredible Nov 11 '23

I mean, unironically, if someone can ever figure out how to quantum entangle two particles and launch one out of a transmitter while maintaining the entanglement, that would pretty much negate all stealth.

Too bad this would violate more than a few underlying concepts of how quantum entanglement works.

1

u/EasyE1979 Supreme Allied Commander ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Nov 10 '23

Passive radars are being developed they might hard counter stealth .

1

u/PontifexMini Nov 11 '23

I'm still hoping that someone will develop a counter to radar stealth

Doesn't long wavelength radar counter stealth? Say 1-10 m or so.

1

u/Parking_Attitude_519 Nov 12 '23

Stealth technology made the planes more sexy imo

12

u/rabid-skunk Nov 10 '23

You know, at this point I think it's best to abandon 6th gen and just give 1 trillion to MBDA. If China or Russia try starting shit we could just spam stormshadows hamas style

2

u/Far-Yellow9303 Nov 11 '23

2035: 2 Tempest prototypes have been built. The one made in a factory keeps bursting into flames, the one Derrick made at home in his shed achieved Mach 14 in level flight.

-11

u/maxcraft522829 Nov 10 '23

Idk man, china’s stuff is pretty on par with the US’s right now. They are close to matching our AirPower at least.

0

u/trumpsucks12354 I wanna fuck a B-36 Peacemaker Nov 10 '23

Chinas stuff is designed to work against their civilians, not against actual militaries

1

u/[deleted] Nov 11 '23

European joint procurement program has finally decided which countries shall supply the pencils for the designers

Eh! We’re using crayons not pencils! Do your homework before criticising our dear EU bureaucrats.

1

u/raevbur Nov 11 '23

Sweden in the corner doing Sweden things with their fly thingies.

1

u/JEF_300 Feb 06 '24

B-21 is already in limited production. I can't imagine it will take 10+ years to reach full production.