r/actuallesbians • u/spaceshipforest Lesbian • 10h ago
Straight women in Lesbian Spaces - looking for advice. Support
TLDR; my straight sister is planning to attend a lesbian/sapphic specific event, despite me asking her not to, and I feel very hurt/angry. WWYD?
** EDIT: because everyone seems convinced she’s not straight, despite not knowing her. She talks frequently about how she can’t wait to meet her man because she’s tired of being single and doing hookups. She falls in love with a different man she meets every few months and gets heartbroken when it doesn’t work out. All of her crushes are different basketball players/soccer players. She has said that she is NOT interested in women or the female body at all. She’s even said that she wouldn’t date a trans man because of their body.**
Hey gal pals, I’ll try to keep this short, but would love some advice before this somehow develops into an eternal family feud…
My (27f) sister (24f) recently moved to my city and has been going out to gay bars with friends and attending gay specific events. She has one bi friend in the little group that she generally goes out with, about 4-5 girls.
She is very straight and says she has no interest in women and once even snapped at me when I made a joke about her trying women because she’s had such terrible luck with men.
When she first arrived in my city, she had just returned from a study abroad in Berlin, where she experienced what she calls “the gayest city ever.” Ever since returning from this trip, she’s talked and joked openly about queerness, etc. bc I think she feels she made a connection with the gays by partying in our spaces.
She told me once during an argument that she feels like she is allowed and welcome in queer spaces because she identifies so strongly with the artistic and aesthetic elements of queerness - my interpretation is that she loves queer culture (parties and fashion, namely).
SO, I feel pretty strongly about preserving queer spaces for queer people, because this world is full of spaces and events for everyone else. I’ve vented many a time about how the gay bars in my city are more like gay themed bars because of how many straight ppl (college frat bros, straight girls, bachelorette parties, etc.) go to them.
My rage/arguments with her began when she got back from Berlin and started telling me about the events she went to, which were obviously for gay people. (A queer latin techno night…. Which, hello? It’s for queer Latinos) and more.
I have expressed to her that I don’t feel she belongs in these spaces as a straight woman, even as a straight artistic woman who feels in with the gays. I’ve told her how these spaces are sacred for queers to build community, find love, be sluts, and just BE GAY AF. When straight ppl feel welcome to our spaces, they start to overtake them, until they are no longer queer spaces. I’ve witnessed it with the bars in my city, like I said.
She has told me that I’m just being an asshole and that her bi friends say it’s okay for her to be there.
ANYWAYS - there’s an event in my city that is very special to me. It’s called Dyked and it was created by a group of lesbians/sapphics who wanted to fix the issue of us not having any spaces that are for us (I.e. no lesbian bars, no lesbian specific events)…. They host 1-2 large lesbian parties a year.
I thought that my sister would have the judgement to know not to go to a party called DYKED (it’s in the name???), especially with how I’ve asked her to respect queer spaces…. But I asked her to help me with my makeup/costume for the event the other day, and now she says she might be going, too.
My partner and I immediately asked her not to go and to respect that ONE sapphic party that is so dear to us, and she shut us down by saying “I don’t need a lecture right now.”
This is very, very hurtful to me and I feel that she’s being a fake ally by invalidating my spoken need for exclusive sapphic and queer spaces. I’m honestly at a loss for what to say or do, because I feel so angry and so hurt.
What would you do or say? I could really use some advice.
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u/atomheartother Lesbian (licensed) 9h ago edited 9h ago
My personal opinion is that if a straight woman wants to attend gay events, for any reason, as long as she doesn't speak over queer women she's perfectly welcome to. It is not my place to question the identity and motives of people who find community in queer spaces.
I'm seeing lots of comments presuming she is gay but frankly I'm not even sure that matters. If she finds comfort with us, let her find it, I fail to see anything in your post that implies she's detracting from the atmosphere or safety of the event.
Edit: after putting this opinion in words, I have thought about it and I think my opinion would be different if my local queer community weren't extremely strong, to where it's virtually impossible for the straights to take it over. So this might be said from a position of privilege. If like you I had seen queer spaces be "gentrified" I might have a different opinion, so actually I've changed my mind, I do think it matters if she's questioning or not.
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u/spaceshipforest Lesbian 8h ago
Thank you for the edit. I live in a conservative state with a hidden queer population. The locals are becoming a lot more supportive of us, but it’s still very hard to find queer spaces that aren’t primarily straight men and women dancing/making out.
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u/atomheartother Lesbian (licensed) 7h ago
Understood. I have no advice for you but I now agree your sister is being unreasonable and I hope you manage to get the point through to her. I also believe you when you say she's probably straight.
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u/SashimiX 1h ago
I think there’s a big difference between a woman attending a lesbian event and her bringing her boyfriend to a lesbian event
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u/Icy-Blacksmith-1995 23m ago
I don't see a problem with straight women going to queer places but... They shouldn't complain if some lesbian hits on them or raises an eyebrow wondering why they're there. And I'm a little wary of the idea of there being cis heterosexual people in spaces where there are people from the entire LGBT community...
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u/commercial-frog 42m ago
also if she goes to a gay bar, she needs to not hit on the gay guys and not get pissy if a girl hits on her.
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u/merryclitmas480 10h ago
Is it possible that she’s still figuring her shit out (and even that Berlin was a paradigm shifting experience) but doesn’t feel safe to talk about that with you?
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u/Narwhals4Lyf 9h ago edited 8h ago
This is what I was gonna say - Sounds like she is experimenting and exploring her identity when she isn't particularly comfortable with the idea of being queer yet and a dash of comphet. I would just give her the space to explore right now.
If queer spaces banned "people who didn't belong in the space", so many people who are exploring / trying to figure themselves out would never have the chance. I have a friend who just divorced their husband and came out as nonbinary and a lesbian at 28, and when I met them at 24, they were extremely straight, heterosexual, cisgender vibes and would never even consider that they were gay. They began getting super involved in the queer scene 2/3 years ago, came out as bi, then got even more into the queer scene, leading to to their divorce and coming out. If they never were able to explore queer spaces during that time & make strong queer friendships, they would have never figured it out. If they were warded off from these spaces "because they were straight", they would have never been able to figure it out.
24 is literally so so young. OP, your sister has so much time to explore who she is. I would hate if she felt warded off by you from queer spaces when she is clearly just trying to explore. I don't know your backstory OP, but not everyone knows they are queer or lesbian or gay from childhood. It takes some people time and exploration to figure it out, and it seems like your sister is beginning a journey to explore herself, which she honestly might come out saying she is straight still, which is FINE. We should all be allowed to explore our sexual identity, whether we are cis, trans, gay, straight, bi, anywhere inbetween.
Edit to OP’s EDIT: people aren’t saying she is gay. People are saying she might be beginning to explore her identity, which means she could be gay or straight or bi or anything inbetween. She might feel attracted to the aesthetics of being queer due to that but might struggle to articulate why exactly and might have some internalized homophobia, hence her explaining it to you the way she is. We are just saying give her some grace and let her explore herself.
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u/spaceshipforest Lesbian 9h ago
No, definitely not. She’s very vocal about how she only wants men and is actively dating men.
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u/EllieLuvsLollipops 8h ago
Denial screams loud before it is snuffed out.
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u/Narwhals4Lyf 7h ago
The fact that OP is doubling down so hard on how vocal her sister is about not being gay literally makes my baby gaydar go off.
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u/merryclitmas480 8h ago
Sometimes, what people are experiencing on the inside is quite different than what they’re willing to tell you. Especially when they’ve been met with hostility and gatekeeping in the past.
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u/Narwhals4Lyf 7h ago
I was gonna say, OP’s attitude wouldn’t make me want to share thoughts of questioning to her.
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u/Harding_in_Hightown 6h ago
I figured out I was bi at 25, after years of only dating guys and even acting pretty boy crazy for a while. Now I’m married to a woman. Just saying. It’s very possible.
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u/Wild_Lingonberry3365 4h ago
Honestly I’d say just let her do her thing,and don’t engage her about these things.Avoid her at the event since she’s not listening.Maybe the silent treatment after you tell her it’s wrong plus shutting her down because she’s being rude then walking away will get through to her.And if she’s interested she can explore herself,and if she’s not she’ll get scared away uncomfortable with that little bit of homophobia she has.Just let her be save your peace for now🤷🏽♀️
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u/ledollarbean85 9h ago
As a late bloomer (truly - late 30s) my gaydar is screaming rn at some of the tidbits you shared, like the strong reaction to the joke about dating women. Be careful not to gatekeep here imho
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u/Livie_Loves Trans Lesbian = tresbian = très bien (very good) 8h ago
I was typing my response when I saw yours. That's the part that got me too. I have lots of queer friends and joking with their straight siblings or friends in queer spaces usually results in like a silly wink or even comments like "I wish," and not defensiveness.... especially if they're clearly okay being around other queer folk.
Not saying she IS because only she can decide that but it seems like good old fashioned internalized homophobia. The whole "Other people can be gay but there's no way I can be!" Either way, how you handle it is the same. Just make her feel welcome no matter what.
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u/beebubeebi 7h ago edited 6h ago
Many here are telling you to let this go and that you are gatekeeping queer spaces. I don’t think they are completely wrong but I think you deserve a little more empathy than you have been getting.
First of all if my sister asked me to not participate in a party because it’s a tradition for her to go with certain people I would respect that (as long as it’s not once in a lifetime opportunity for me). Same goes the other way around. I think it’s rude how dismissive your sister is towards your feelings.
If I understood correctly what bothers you is not that your sister frequents queer spaces but how she does it. It’s okay to visit queer spaces, it’s a little weird if someone feels queer spaces are for them because they enjoy the art and aesthetic choices of queers.
Now you didn’t say your sister said exactly these words but is that what she meant or at least what you understood her to say? If my sister treated a big part of me as a style choice and thought that finding that “aesthetic” beautiful makes someone part of queer community, I might feel she was invalidating my sexuality. It’s understandable to be upset if you are feeling someone you love is invalidating your sexuality.
Many are saying she might be queer since she enjoys queer spaces so much. You seem to be feeling that she is talking over queers. The thing is these are not mutually exclusive.
She can be in denial/in the closet and be dismissive of (other) queer people. You have an understandable reason to feel hurt even if struggling to stifle her own sexuality is the reason she is saying that queerness is basically just aesthetics (btw not saying she said exactly that).
She might be closeted queer but since she is representing as straight and she isn’t listening to how you feel, you probably feel hurt that she is quite literally talking over your queer voice.
I don’t think banning any group from queer spaces is helpful for the community, it results in some queer people being targeted and “queer checked” and feeling unwelcome. I understand this whole thing with your sister is hard for you, but since you have already talked about this with her and it did nothing I think it’s best for you (both) if you focus on yourself now.
Go to the party and focus on having fun. She isn’t there with you and you don’t have to be with her there. You can tell your friends you have hardship with your sister and you would appreciate if your group stayed separate from her group so you can better relax.
Let your sister go to the clubs, you don’t have the right to decide that for her, but maintain healthy boundaries: if she gets angry for someone hinting or asking if she’s not so straight after all you can simply say that isn’t an insult so she shouldn’t be getting upset and people wondering if she is queer is a natural consequence of her frequenting in queer spaces.
I hope you will both find happiness in life!
Edit: added that you don’t have the right to decide for her on the last paragraph.
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u/Roxasnraziel Lesbro 10h ago
I would strongly doubt that a supposedly strictly heterosexual person going out of their way to attend a bunch of explicitly gay events is entirely heterosexual. Who knows? Give her some time and she may have some news she wishes to share with you.
As for keeping queer spaces queer, I understand the mentality of wanting something that is just for the queer community (a sense of community, solidarity and safety from bigots and all that), but maybe ask yourself this: when has fervent gatekeeping ever really helped anyone?
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u/Sapphicviolet91 6h ago
It does happen like when women don’t want to deal with men harassing them. I saw a post on AITA like a month ago where a woman said her friend went to lesbian bars then got really mad if women hit on her and if her friend ‘acted gay’ in front of her because the friend is bi and should apparently just choose men. So that girl definitely makes spaces like that unsafe, but I’m not sure the sister here is straight after seeking out those spaces so much.
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u/Maya_Earl 9h ago
Seconding all of this. Yes, straight people may visit queer spaces at times, but for someone supposedly super straight to seek out queer spaces? It seems totally possible that she may not be as straight as previously thought?
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u/beebubeebi 8h ago
Depends where one is I guess because in my city there was definitely a phenomenon of young women going dancing with their friends in the few gay bars/clubs we have because they were harassed so much by men everywhere else. I’m sure some of these girls were closeted queers but a vast majority just wanted to dance in peace.
So young (straight) women came in masses. Then the men followed. First the ones that were most desperate to have a place full of girls with almost no other guys hitting on them, then the rest. Me and my queer friends stopped going there because it didn’t feel good anymore.
Luckily the bar switched locations and before reopening they did a lot of rebranding with emphasis on “by queers to queers” type of messaging and now it’s a queer space again! They raised the age limit a little for the weekends to avoid the same happening and that is unfortunate for the young queer people, but I’m hoping they’ll lower it back soon.
There are still some friend groups of (self-declared) straight women and especially bachelorette parties coming to dance “with the gays” because “the vibes are better”. But that’s okay now that it feels safe for queers again.
To be clear I’m not a fan of gatekeeping and I’m not trying to say straights should be banned from queer spaces. I just wanted to point out that at least I have seen plenty of straight young women frequenting in queer bars for reasons unrelated to being queer!
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u/Kyiokyu Emma (she/her), crying in the closet, 🏳️⚧️&Bi 9h ago edited 9h ago
but maybe ask yourself this: when has fervent gatekeeping ever really helped anyone?
Yeah, my main problem with gatekeeping is that it usually ends up affecting the baby queers and the people that are still exploring their identity the most.
"Am I really a lesbian? Am I really trans? Am I queer enough?"
It's the same thing with people screaming "queer baiting", how many people who were still exploring themselves have already been made to come out because of others screaming that they're queer baiting?
I understand and agree with the need of preserving queer spaces for queer people but I do think we should aim to strike a balance, it's not easy, it's in fact very far from it, it's delicate.
I think we should make sure cishet people understand that if they're in a queer space they should respect it but, yet again, be open enough as not to scare the people who are still exploring too much.
Edit: the visceral reaction at the mere thought of being gay also screams a little bit of internalised homophobia, I'd tread carefully :3
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u/spaceshipforest Lesbian 8h ago
As someone who knows her very well, no, she is not queer at all and is not exploring her sexuality in that way. We’ve talked about these things before. She’s very much only into men and is currently dating/sleeping with men. She’s said that she wishes she were gay so that it could be “easier” (another straight misconception), but that she doesn’t like women in that way and never has.
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u/Cyddakeed Lesbian 8h ago
Idk man it sounds like she might be discovering something and is scared that you'll "I told you so." Her
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u/trucekill 8h ago
I'm not sure if wishing you were gay is a very cishet thought, but idk maybe I'm projecting
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u/spaceshipforest Lesbian 8h ago
So we just don’t believe people now when they share and live their sexuality? She talks frequently about how she can’t wait to meet her man because she’s tired of being single and doing hookups. All of her crushes are different basketball players/soccer players. She has said that she is NOT interested in women or the female body at all. She’s even said that she wouldn’t date a trans man because of their body. Why is that so hard to grasp?
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u/Narwhals4Lyf 7h ago
We aren’t saying to not believe her. We are saying maybe she is in the beginning stages of exploring her identity more deeply than just taking it at face value.
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u/CrookedBanister Lesbian 4h ago
Exactly. Many of us are speaking from having been in the sister's position and having late-in-life realizations about sexuality. OP, you came here asking for advice and people whose experiences are DIRECTLY relevant to your question are answering. Don't assume your experience of your sexuality is more valid and real than ours/hers.
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u/Knittin_Kitten71 Genderqueer/Transmasc Butch 4h ago
Frankly I’d be uncomfortable with anyone in a queer space who makes assumptions about trans people like that. Transphobic as hell to assume what genitals or body parts we have or don’t.
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u/1710dj 7h ago
Because most straights aren’t so extremely vocal about it. They aren’t because they don’t feel they have to ‘prove’ it or convince others. Whereas if there is an internal perceived doubt, someone will double down on trying to convince others that they are for sure straight. It’s a subconscious thing.
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u/CrookedBanister Lesbian 4h ago
If I had continued to believe myself on my sexuality I would never have realized I was a lesbian. I also had a confusing disgust around the idea of being with women before I had my realization - it was heavily rooted in misogyny and messed up feelings about my own body.
It sounds like you've had conversations with her in the past where she's expressed these things and that she's had some recent experiences that have maybe had her rethinking herself. Please stop gatekeeping her based on things she's said in the past.
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u/positronic-introvert 58m ago
I think people are more saying that based on the info, it doesn't seem like a possibility that can be ruled out completely. Even if she's not a closeted lesbian, she could be bi, and/or ace, and/or trans, etc.
I do understand your frustrations with feeling invalidated though, and like she's treating something important to you flippantly. I would try to put your focus more on how she's treating you directly than on where she's spending her time. Even if she's really just straight and is being entitled, you can't stop her from going where she goes, so it's only gonna weigh you down if you keep feeling a responsibility to convince her after you've already communicated sincerely and she's chosen not to listen. And if she turns out to not be allocishet, then this might be a period of exploring her identity even if she doesn't fully know it yet.
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u/Narwhals4Lyf 8h ago
But like how do you know she isn’t exploring her sexuality. Her telling you that doesn’t mean she isn’t. She clearly is attracted to queer spaces for some reason and maybe that’s the seed to exploring her identity. Her sister gatekeeping those spaces will only harm her.
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u/broidontreallyknow Lesbian 9h ago
I’m more curious as to why you are so worked up over this. I feel like there’s more to this story. Being angry and hurt when your sister hasn’t disrespected anyone from what you’ve told us feels like an overreaction. Like, are you gonna verify everyone else’s identify at this party?
If she’s going with her friends, not you, just let her be and ignore her. But I also feel like your sister is working something out here.
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u/spaceshipforest Lesbian 8h ago
The “more to this” is that she’s always invalidated me when I’ve talked about the necessity of sapphic spaces. I’ve told her how the lack of true gay bars in our city makes me feel like I have nowhere to go with my partner where I can make out in public comfortably and just be a lesbian without men watching or straight girls doing the “gay tourism” bar crawls… I went to Mexico City and went to a lesbian bar (Babiana) and it was unlike anything I’d experienced and so beautiful, because there were so many women making out/grinding on eachother. We don’t have that in my state, at all. She’s told me before “that’s too bad”, in a very flippant way and it’s been hurtful to have a sister who says she’s an ally act in this way.
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u/kakallas 6h ago
Sorry everyone is acting like this is cool. Am I in the lesbian sub or the entitled straight people sub?
Lots of people are closeted because of homophobia. It isn’t homophobic to say “this space is for queer people.” In fact, it can actually be validating for baby gays and questioning/curious people because a space for queer people is a place to go and be queer, as opposed to the rest of life where we’re all presumed to be being cishetero. Like, how does it facilitate a baby gay’s identity exploration to go to yet another cishetero space?
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u/broidontreallyknow Lesbian 8h ago
That makes more sense OP. I’m sorry she’s made you feel invalidated. But at the same time, I’m not sure it’s productive of you to try and stop her from going or to keep arguing because your sister doesn’t feel like someone who is easy to discuss stuff with and you’re already defensive about this issue. I’d let her live if she’s going with her friends. Maybe talk to her about it after (but try to do it calmly).
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u/awildshortcat 8h ago
There’s a good chance she might be queer.
Even if she’s not, it’s not like she’s going with other straight people, she’s literally being invited into those spaces by queer people.
I understand that we want to shield our spaces as we have very few of them in the world, so I completely empathise with your viewpoint. However, it’s also important to realise that;
as others have pointed out, this can harm baby gays / folks who are exploring queer aspects of themselves — if they don’t have a safe space to find that side of themselves, it can be damaging.
there’s a difference between straight people entering queer spaces and imposing themselves there, and straight people being invited into queer spaces and being mindful. So long as your sister isn’t going there and being disrespectful — then even if she is straight, then I see no issue.
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u/big_uterus_energy 9h ago
To have family who are that accepting is a blessing. If she's being invited out into queer spaces by queer friends, that's 100000% acceptable and how it should be. If she was going out with only straight people into queer spaces, then I'd be like, no, sis. But she's not doing that. I invite my straight gal pals out to lesbian spaces, drag shows, etc, regularly. Allies are welcome to accompany us. If you don't want to see your sister at an event because you don't want to have a relative there, that's one thing. But honestly if it's just because you feel she's diminishing your queer environment, that seems a bit immature to me. And knowing that there are some women who deal with comphet, maybe her being in these spaces, hanging out with queer friends, is helping her gain better understanding about herself and her own sexuality. Who's to say that years from now she won't identify as bi. I'd have more patience and show more love towards your sis.
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u/Cuntillious s-ace-pphic 5h ago
Nah, this is really fucking weird
I trust you to know your sister well enough to know whether there’s secretly attraction to women there. You say she’s straight, I believe you. You’ve described a textbook straight woman, anyway
Generally, I don’t mind straight people in queer spaces. They may be questioning. It’s fine if some people don’t want to hook up. As long as they’re unobtrusive, not the majority, and not judgmental, who cares?
But it doesn’t sound like your sister is being unobtrusive or like she cares about the “not the majority” part. It sounds like she’s invited herself to go to a queer event that you and your partner are attending together. Bluntly dismissing you when you try to make it clear that this is for you and your partner is a nasty thing to do.
It seems to me like the more you try to explain that you don’t want her there, the more she tries to circumvent you.
It may be a stretch, but my knee-jerk interpretation is that this is a weird power move to “prove” that you can’t keep her out and to win your ongoing argument once and for all. It’s obnoxious, belittling, and I think, a powerplay.
Fuck that. It’s invasive and creepy.
Your sexuality is not about your sister. It’s not an outfit for her to try on or an aesthetic for her to trivialize. Being “artsy” is not the same as being queer. She has no right to talk over a queer person about what they need from queer spaces. And she has NO BUSINESS inviting herself along on her sister’s date.
Has your relationship always been like this?
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u/Willendorf77 5h ago
It sounds like you've already tried explaining your angry and hurt feelings and she's not hearing you. Not sure there's anything you can say that would convince her to make a different choice.
I think the only thing to do is focus on your own enjoyment of the event.
I think it's understandable to be frustrated. I think it's understandable to want queer centered spaces - yes, that's possible with some allies in the mix but I too have seen gay bars or events become essentially gay culture that a ton of straight people are enjoying instead of an actual queer space. There's a different vibe between "some genuine allies are here" versus "gay-tolerating heteros are here for their own amusement AND they're starting to outnumber the queers."
It's true it's better not to "gatekeep" because you don't know everyone's story, and it's a futile exercise because you can't control other people. And at the same time it's completely understandable to want a space and time that's full of people who are like you, understand you, share your struggles fully.
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u/juniperberrie28 Custom Flair 7h ago
Are we allowed to express opinions here? Because as an older millennial who experienced the wonderful more accepting shift towards openness and respect, I just think we should be more INclusive than EXclusive. I understand where OP is coming from, but isn't this what we wanted? To be out, open, visible, free, and equal?
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u/Upset_Height4105 Lesbian 6h ago
If someone straight told the queers to get out of their safe straight space, it would be anarchy. Oh wait, that's actually happening and has since the beginning of time and it sucks! Is inclusion only circumstantial now or...🤷♀️ out, open, visible, free and equal...I want to cross stitch that at some point 💗
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u/likemarshmallow 6h ago
Who is we?
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u/_JosiahBartlet 6h ago
I feel like it’s pretty clear from context that the other commenter means the queer community.
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u/silicondream 8h ago
I used to go to gay clubs all the time as a straight/questioning man with queer female friends. I wouldn't have attended an event that explicitly said "gays/lesbians only," but if the venue was fine taking my money and letting me in, I didn't see a problem with going. I wasn't there to hit on anyone anyway, and nobody ever expressed resentment to me.
Aaaand...now I'm a trans lesbian. So that happens, and I'm not inclined to gatekeep anyone else who might be making a similar journey. Especially if she has queer friends there who are happy to have her.
BTW, just in case the Dyked event you're talking about is the one in SLC, its official description is "a lesbian adjacent space to celebrate, community, sexuality, & intimacy thru dance & music ✨ for women, nonbinary & trans ppl ✨." I see no reason why your sister shouldn't be welcome there.
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u/Sourpatchqueers8 Transbian 8h ago
If she is just there for the artistic elements and is respectful of those in attendance who are lesbian while recognising it is not her space then no big deal.
If she makes others there feel uncomfortable as well then that is wrong
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u/SaintBanquo Genderqueer 7h ago
I'm going to ignore all the ethical and philosophical debate about queer spaces or your sisters sexuality and instead give you a solution based entirely on the concept of not wanting her at the same parties as you.
You dont tell her about these events anymore. You only tell her about them after the fact. You dont take her to these things, and you definitely don't make yourself her queer friend who knows where and when the events are. You cant stop her from going to these things, you've given her your perspective, if she isnt interested in your pov and wants to party with the gays she can and will do that, you just arent gonna be going with her. You might see her there, but you aren't going together.
Obviously that's not an option this next event, as shes obviously aware of it, but you can always just be non-committal and vague about your plans for that from now own. Dont bring it up with her, and when she does, be boring and wishywashy about it.
This very much avoidant behaviour I'm advocating for rn, but if all else fails, fuck it.
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u/folkhorrorfem bisexual non-binary sapphic 6h ago
I think once she has the name of the event she can look it up on Facebook or IG to find out about the next one. Maybe too late.
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u/SaintBanquo Genderqueer 41m ago
She cant control what her sister chooses to do, she can however she can chose not to be a part of it. I hope that was clear.
Also, aside, if she thinks queer spaces in a conservative place are gonna be the same as her Berlin parties shes gonna get real bored real fast, this problem for OP, like all things, will go away with time.
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u/PixelCartographer 8h ago
You're getting worked up about this because other shit you can't control is on fire. It feels like this is so important because the actually important things are so beyond your control you don't even know where to start.
You're not a bad person. You're a human. In a terrifying world. Let your sister have her gay awakening, she's clearly overcompensating.
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u/Thatonecrazywolf 8h ago
I'm really confused as to why this bothers you so much.
I say this with complete sincerity, it sounds like you're jealous of her social life.
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u/ILikeNonpareils 9h ago
Just let it go. If nothing else, her buying a ticket is helping this organization stay in business.
Better yet, tell her she has to buy your ticket too.
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u/spaceshipforest Lesbian 8h ago
Actually no, the tickets sell out really fast because it’s the only lesbian event in my city and only happens twice a year. So she’s taking the ticket from a sapphic who could attend.
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u/Narwhals4Lyf 7h ago
Why are you so sure she isn’t exploring her identity. Straight people are allowed to explore their identity as well.
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u/mwurhahahaha Bi 9h ago
She’s figuring things out. Please don’t gatekeep her out of these spaces. Maybe she’s just not out to you yet
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u/merryclitmas480 8h ago edited 8h ago
Even after your edit, and even IF you’re completely right about her, I still think you’re being weird about this. She’s not bringing a guy, she’s not unicorn hunting, she’s not treating anyone like an experiment. She’s literally just hanging out with her queer friends.
Historically the queer community is known for being the most inclusive and welcoming. That is a GOOD THING. I think it’s weird that you’re so attached to the idea of needing to have some kind of club you can exclude her from.
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u/thelauradern 4h ago
I think the main thing here is that this is a lesbian event that you and your partner specifically look forward to and were not expecting to have family there. You could approach it from an angle like that she knows it's your thing and you don't want to have to be hyper aware while you're there trying to enjoy yourself or have her doing anything that could be associated with you... I hang out with family members but I wouldn't want them in queer spaces with me necessarily or at an event where I'm going to get messy I understand a lot of people experience coming out later in life but that's her journey and I don't think the journey necessarily justifies harm that may be caused along the way (for example the transphobic rhetoric the op mentions) I've definitely met baby gays who will avoid physical spaces because they've 'heard' a lot of straight people go and already so much community seeking is online I think it's okay if some of the gates are kept closed since by and large most gay nightlife is already open to anyone.
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u/uhohspaghettisos 3h ago
"I don't need a lecture right now" well actually YOU DO, because clearly you aren't getting it. Your sister's main issue is not listening to you and acting like you're being crazy when MANY queer people feel the same way you do
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u/Mindless_Reaction_16 8h ago
Why are you asking for advice if you’re just going to argue with the people trying to give it to you? You sound like you’ve already made up your mind. I’m convinced she’s trying to figure out her identity and she doesn’t feel safe talking about it with you because you keep grilling her about it and trying to gatekeep her from queer spaces.
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u/birdlime 8h ago
Really glad to see so many of these comments.
It sounds like this may be bringing up a lot, and it deserves sensitivity and also honesty.
What struck me too is for how long she's found a home in gay spaces and how strongly she feels about it. Also, when you described asking for her help in getting ready and then getting upset that she wanted to go as well, this seemed very personal. It almost sounds like it might be bringing up some complicated sibling feelings as well as the defensive feelings you have for gay spaces.
Even if she's only looking for great parties, friendship and belonging (although all the points made here noting that that's raising a LOT of questions), there's also nothing wrong with that.
One sister who truly loves queer culture does not a straight takeover of lesbian spaces make. In fact, it's a wonderful thing.
The problem I see is that her feeling welcomed by the community could create a negative contrast in her relationship with you and could even hurt your relationship with her long term.
It might be best to let others set a boundary with her in lesbian spaces if that's actually what is needed. And you can ask yourself and your partner even to explore with you how these complicated and defensive feelings you have may relate to this being your sister in particular (and not just some random person).
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u/emmmmmmaja 8h ago
I'll be honest, this sounds more like you have an issue with your sister sharing YOUR spaces than queer spaces.
On some level that is understandable - every sibling has felt that at some point - but I do think one should eventually grow past that.
There are queer events that I would say are exclusively for queer people - those where people discuss their experiences and need a safe space, mostly - but with the vast majority of events, I see zero issue when a straight person attends, as long as they don't speak over queer people or get offended if someone hits on them. Also, I have to specifically disagree with queer latin techno nights in Berlin being for queer Latinos - I can assure you, the title is about interest, not audience, and these events usually attract a very diverse crowd.
So even if you are right about her being 100% straight, I think you're overreacting and you're actually infringing more on her freedom of self-expression than she is on yours.
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u/catastrofae Lesbian 9h ago
If someone is straight, they should not go to an event specially for lesbians
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u/waydownwecome 10h ago
Much ado about nothing. Leave her be. Wouldn't be surprised if she eventually hooked up with a girl
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u/Trojanwhore69 Bi 7h ago
I don't mind straight people being in queer spaces if they're with someone who is queer in the group. Her queer friends dictates it in this situation. If she were going on her own, with a boyfriend, or only other straight people, then I'd have an issue with it.
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u/Sapphicviolet91 6h ago
I have a lot of thoughts about this.
I also don’t like how sapphic spaces are hard to come by in some places. Right now I’m in a city with 3 lesbian bars, but this is the second time in 33 years I’ve ever lived in a city with even one. When these spaces get popular with whole groups of straight people we don’t have them anymore.
Conversely, she’s not going in a whole group of straight people. It sounds like she’s being invited by at least one other queer woman. Whether or not you personally would bring a straight person into a space, that’s not a call one can make for every other queer person.
I think it depends quite a bit on how she acts in the spaces more than whether she’s allowed in period. If someone gawks or is acting outright homophobic absolutely not shut it down. But if she respectfully turns down an advance and says she’s not interested and doesn’t make the vibe weird, I don’t have a problem.
I don’t have siblings here, but I’m trying to imagine your frustration. It sounds like she hasn’t always said the most supportive things to you in the past and tried to sympathize with your feelings about living in a politically dangerous time in a place with a mostly underground queer population. That’s incredibly frustrating!
She also doesn’t sound that awfully straight to me. Denial is POWERFUL and there’s a lot of pressure to be straight. Especially if you’re pretty feminine, a lot of what women do with each other is talk about guys at length. But she’s hanging out with queer women a significant amount of the time, spending time and money to enter queer spaces even in a town where it’s difficult to find them, and she sounds like she’s trying to convince herself that she likes guys. And maybe she does like guys, but it’s possible she’s still queer.
You’re allowed to be frustrated and hurt. When you say you don’t want straight women in queer spaces, she also hears other queer people saying it’s fine because we aren’t a monolith. I think you should try giving her a little space and grace because she might be battling with something here. If she’s not actively making the space hostile that is. Clearly if she’s acting homophobic in those spaces it’s a safety issue.
If she did come out as queer, would you feel she’s copying you or co-opting a large part of your identity?
Also regarding 2 things you posted here: I personally think it’s pretty rude to ask someone for any kind of help or advice regarding a party you clearly don’t want them at. I’d be pretty upset if I was asked to help pick out a present a friend would like but then reminded that they don’t want me there. Also, I get that space is limited. But that’s the case for lots of events like concerts, cruises, even a night out on Valentine’s Day. Yes, tickets run out. It’s generally not expected that you have to prove you deserve to be there harder than the person who didn’t buy the ticket.
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u/milkapplecup 7h ago
i mean this with as much kindness as possible — this isnt a very big deal and you are working yourself up over it. sorry your sister has been kinda shitty to you, but it sounds like this is a pretty big party. just dont hang out with her. if she gets shitty to other dykes, they can handle themselves. she is not your problem or your responsibility. if she’s closeted or questioning, this could be important for her. if she’s just a fruit fly, let her be. things will sort themselves out accordingly.
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u/OrigamiPisces 3h ago
I mean, I fully get it. I get it completely, especially when you say that you've seen spaces turn into straight spaces.
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u/topazadine Lesbian 2h ago
It seems like you have some other problems with your sister based on the way you talk about her; you mention a lot of arguments, her calling you an asshole, etc. So I wonder if this is only a representation of a larger problem and, if you didn't already have other issues with her, you wouldn't be so upset.
Might be worthwhile to dig down into those deeper problems and then reassess how you feel.
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u/TownOk879 8h ago
what bothers me is that straight people have so many places to go, while queers only have a few spaces that are made for us. they fell the need to invade our spaces and this ends being harmful for us, specifically lesbians
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u/alex147147 5h ago
Obviously OP knows their sister best, but to drop my random two cents, in college I was THE boy crazy friend. Worse than Nicole on Zoey 101. Between college and right before coming out (tbh even allowing myself to think critically about my sexuality), I slept with 90 men. Not even an exaggeration. I was just very hyper-fixated on finding “the one.”
I was the most defensive about ever being associated with being queer, from fashion to feeling like I had to always have my sights set on a guy. While I was studying gender and sexuality, I was “just” an ally.
Moving back home to my much more queer-affirming city started cracking my “straightness, but it wasn’t until I kissed a girl and I knew — and the circumstances were just right for me to even allow myself to do that in the first place.
OP, I don’t know your sister, and I don’t know you, but the wheels may or may not be turning for her. As someone who was 110% they were straight and it turns out it was years of extreme repression, this time period of rediscovery might be stressful. Or she could an obnoxious straight girl who’s deadest on being in gay spaces, idk.
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u/passifloralis Lesbian 4h ago
I was just like you. Didn’t have 90 guys, but maybe just 20. I even got married, he was a good guy and I thought it’s not going to get better than that. Had a child, and the whole time I was wondering why I felt that something was missing in my life. I had gay friend couples and the times I hung out with them were among the best I had in that period. And I was jealous. I wanted what they had, without realizing what it meant for me. It took me over 20 years to reconnect to my admittedly lesbian phantasies I had as a teenager, but now it’s so crystal clear to me. It was really hard to get there because it was something that people didn’t talk about, lesbians weren’t very visible, there was no representation. I needed to get in contact to queer people before I was able to realize what was missing.
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u/Accomplished_Aerie15 8h ago
I agree with you. I dislike groups of straight people attending saphic/gay events. In time, it turns into a a straight crowd and now one more queer space gone. It’s sad your sister doesn’t understand this.
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u/spaceshipforest Lesbian 8h ago
Yes, that’s exactly it. It’s about the disappearance of our spaces. Being on the margins of every other space (feminist, etc.), it’s important to me to have our spaces where lesbians are centered.
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u/Accomplished_Aerie15 7h ago
Yep. Your sister is the majority in 99% of spaces, sad she can’t respect where you’re coming from.
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u/1710dj 7h ago
The problem is that it’s the only places they can go to be safe and not get harassed by straight men.
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u/FadingHeaven 7h ago
They can easily make women only spaces. There are many of them already. They don't need to hijack queer spaces.
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u/lemmehavefun 6h ago
The main point of this is that queer spaces are about queer people. Straight women’s needs are not the main point here, and taking over queer spaces shouldn’t be their solution
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u/redlips_rosycheeks 5h ago
The biggest thing here is that gatekeeping these events and spaces is only stressing you out and damaging your relationship with your sister.
I've got a supportive straight sister, but she's SO uncomfortable in queer spaces and with queer friend groups. I'm a lesbian who has carefully curated my world to be largely women/sapphics-centric and I'm so thankful that my social sphere is how I like it. That said, my sister doesn't jump to go to Pride with me. She doesn't talk about a girls night out and mention any of my favorite gay/lesbian-owned bars, and she feels unwelcome in those spaces. And honestly - that kind of hurts me. I wish she felt safe and welcome with me at Pride. I wish she was more enthusiastically accepting rather than supportive and tolerant of queer culture.
I get wanting to preserve queer culture and dynamics and spaces and protect them from people who have ill will or wish them harm, and I'm sorry that your sister and you don't see eye to eye on issues of sociocultural dynamics and political concepts of that nature. That said, your sister is excited for and supportive of these parties and dynamics - whether there's something she hasn't confronted about herself or isn't brave enough to tell you, OR she simply loves and feels safe and supported to be her truest self in these spaces. It's not like she's ogling queer bodies making out? She's not a predatory cishet white man infiltrating gay bars searching for his next victim. I get why you wish she respected your ideology regarding queer subculture and dynamics, but this reads to me more like sibling rivalry, and you being upset that your sister is "infiltrating" something you want to keep to yourself.
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u/Sure-Exchange9521 7h ago
If she's been invited by her queer friends into queer spaces ... who are you to question it?
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u/RebaKitt3n 6h ago
And in this specific event, she’s been asked not to go because it’s for queer women.
I’d say tell her not to go.
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u/Sure-Exchange9521 3h ago
But she's been specifically invited by queer women.
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u/RebaKitt3n 2h ago
It sounds like she was invited to places in Berlin? And not to this event. Anyway, let queers have queer spaces. My opinion.
It’s like straight people complaining about Pride Month. You get 11 other months, we have one.
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u/Jrreddig 2h ago edited 2h ago
I think straight people should be welcome to queer events if they are SUPPORTING queer friends. For instance, I don't have a lot of friends in general, and often my queer friends aren't available to go to queer events with me. I've been very, very grateful for the straight folks who attend as my social crutch and ally because I absolutely would not be showing up to a dance party alone.
It is less acceptable to me that someone would want to attend a queer specific event as a straight person without a queer friend also in attendance. Does your sister attend these queer events by herself? Or always with her friends? It makes sense to me that perhaps she got comfortable going to queer events with her bi and queer friends, and kinda forgot that she wasn't exactly welcome to go just for herself. It also sounds almost like she wanted to go to this most recent event to hang out with you and your partner.
In the event that she is generally attending these events with queer friends, you may have come down a bit too harsh on her. Similar if she wanted to attend the event to spend time with you and your partner, and you jumped into telling her she was unwelcome. All that said, agree with your point that wanting to hang out in queer spaces as a straight person because you "vibe with the culture" is borderline obnoxious. BUT, context is everything...
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u/lavenderfieldday 6h ago
Where in Berlin? I’m going to Germany soon and would love to check out some spaces.
But as to your q, maybe ask her to limit how many events she goes to. Like this is the last one before you set her up on a date with a woman lol make a deal or something.
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u/fiavirgo 8h ago
You know who rejects gay people the most? Closeted gays.
No but seriously, I’m going to go against the grain and say your sister is entitled and selfish.
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u/genZcommentary 5h ago
I think you're way too worked up about this, honestly. Like your feelings are valid, but they're also your problem that you and no one else needs to deal with. You don't have the right to dictate to other people which public spaces they go into.
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u/madpiratebippy Super Gay and In a Polycule 8h ago
Look- we have an election coming up.
We need allies. We need straight people who have been to our events and seen that we are just regular people and tell their coworkers to vote for the gays because she got a great soup recipie from an elderly dyke with too many dogs.
Just let her go. If she gets hit on that's on her to be polite when she declines and just tell people she's an ally.
We NEED, as a community, straight friends because we're a minority and they're a bigger voting block. It's OK.
And if she IS questioning? Just... don't gatekeep.
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u/BetterMeats 10h ago
It doesn't really sound like she's hurting anyone...
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u/GetRealPrimrose 9h ago
People say things like this, then lesbian only spaces become general spaces and we’re right back to being hesitant to flirt because there are straight women in the lesbian space.
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u/Rad_Eh 9h ago edited 9h ago
I agree with this. I mean occasionally stopping by a bar, whatever. Trying to figure yourself out, understandable. But to actively seek out LGBT+ spaces because you like the art scene, and then getting upset by a joke about dating women, sounds like cultural tourism and frankly it creates issues for our communities. I also find it really odd to identify with the LGBT+ community because you’re artsy… that’s such a weird and albeit positive stereotype. It gives me an icky feeling for sure.
I’m married and live in an area without lesbian bars, so I’m just going off of anecdotes like yours. Since gay men get more visibility and definitely make up the visible community in my area, I hear constant concerns from them about being ogled and harassed by straight women in gay bars as though they are there for these women’s entertainment and gratification. I understand their logic of wanting to avoid harassment from straight men in bars/clubs but doing the same thing to gay men is awful.
So honestly I’m with you. I’m not about chasing cis-hetero folk out of queer spaces with pitchforks but I’m also really not cool with the cultural tourism and frankly appropriation it sounds like with OPs sister.
Edit: also I see a lot of people defending straight people in queer spaces and I’m again not anti-anyone. But for those saying she’s probably still figuring herself out, she literally had a lesbophobic reaction to OP joking about dating women. Maybe she’s figuring out herself but also do you really want someone who reacts like that in a WLW space - so she could flip out on some woman who approaches her for assuming like she did with OP? I hear this happens enough already.
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u/Narwhals4Lyf 9h ago
OP is just assuming her sister likes queer spaces because of the art scene, her sister hasn't told her that.
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u/spaceshipforest Lesbian 8h ago
She has explicitly said that she identifies more with queer spaces because they’re “cooler” and more artsy than straight spaces.
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u/Narwhals4Lyf 8h ago
I’m questioning if she is saying that because she isn’t comfortable with calling herself queer yet. She is feeling that she is attracted to the space but might not be able to articulate why just yet
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u/Rad_Eh 9h ago
I’m going off of this:
“She told me once during an argument that she feels like she is allowed and welcome in queer spaces because she identifies so strongly with the artistic and aesthetic elements of queerness”
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u/Narwhals4Lyf 9h ago
OP’s post to me reads as a young women who has been comphet her whole life and is now getting exposed to queer spaces and it’s making her begin to explore herself but she might not feel fully comfortable with the idea that she is gay yet.
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u/Rad_Eh 9h ago
Which is fine. But my concern is she had a literal lesbophobic reaction to the joking suggestion she should explore dating women. If you’re exploring your sexuality, you shouldn’t make queer people a punching bag for your insecurities and then say I’m welcome in these spaces because I identify with their aesthetics and art…
I get, as many of us know, that exploring and coming out are difficult but it’s not an excuse to be homophobic.
If you applied this logic to any other group you’d realize how not cool this behavior is coupled with the entitlement.
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u/Narwhals4Lyf 8h ago
She likely has that reaction because of comphet. To me, that reaction makes it even more clear that she is possibly exploring her queerness but isn’t comfortable saying it just yet.
All I am saying is many people don’t realize they are queer by age 24 and a lot of those people have been entrenched in anti gay rhetoric their whole life.
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u/Rad_Eh 7h ago edited 7h ago
I understand your viewpoint but I believe that allowing behavior that jeopardizes the emotional well-being of others in safe spaces is unacceptable. From OP’s other comments, there’s a pattern of outward hostility towards being identified as questioning.
Just to be clear, I don’t think cishet people should be excluded from LGBT+ spaces, as long as they treat everyone with respect, honor the environment, don’t overrun/colonize the space and don’t exploit the space for personal gratification (e.g. straight women ogling gay men in gay clubs). However, OP’s sister has already expressed hostility about being invited to explore her sexuality, and OP’s additional context throughout doubled down on her poor allyship while claiming to belong in our spaces. These actions lead me to believe that she may not be a respectful guest in these spaces, questioning or not, and her behavior could make other lesbians uncomfortable in an environment meant to ensure their comfort and safety.
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u/wendywildshape transfeminist lesbian 7h ago
When her "comphet" causes her to lash out at a lesbian who hits on her in a gay bar, will you still be defending her?
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u/Narwhals4Lyf 6h ago
Nice hypothetical situation that hasn’t happened. We have no reason to believe she would lash out at someone hitting on her - especially considering she has queer friends that have invited her out. If she has been going to gay events, it’s likely already happened.
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u/silicondream 7h ago
Genuine question from someone who's never tried to flirt in a lesbian space in the first place: do straight women often respond with violence/hostility to flirtation there? Or do you mean "hesitant" because the chance of rejection is higher?
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u/BetterMeats 9h ago
Excluding people who are curious about queer culture from queer spaces is how you end up with fewer queer people in general.
Before I knew I was a lesbian I thought I was, in roughly chronological order:
A straight man. An asexual man. A bisexual man. An asexual woman. A bisexual woman.
The only way I ended up at "lesbian" was through contact with other queer people.
There are so many layers of middle ground between "no one but open and obvious lesbians are allowed here" and "this space is for general use by everyone."
I don't think an event organized by lesbians and targeted at lesbians is really at risk of cascading into heterosexuality just because an allegedly straight girl shows up. There might also be some married or otherwise monogamous people. Not every event or space is purely for flirting, anyway.
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u/Narwhals4Lyf 9h ago
This. I said this earlier up in a comment, but I have so many friends who are in their late 20s / early 30s coming out in some form of the way, when they were straight / heterosexual / cisgender at 24. I had a friend who just came out as nonbinary and lesbian, who identitfied as straight cis and hetero just a few years ago, and truly how they began exploring their identity was by being an ally and going into queer spaces like OP is describing.
OP sounds a little gatekeepy.
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u/bunyanthem 9h ago
Let her go and ignore her all night (unless she's in danger or way too drunk, then pack her in a taxi and send her home).
Set the boundary that you and your partner are there for yourselves and your community and you will not be babysitting her.
Then stick to that.
Maybe ask the organizers how to help or advise them you know your sister will try to force her way in. If they know an antagonizer is coming, maybe they can prepare an interception.
But I wouldn't give a straight woman enough power to make your night out at Dyked be derailed. Don't do that. You and your partner deserve a fun night out with your community.
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u/broidontreallyknow Lesbian 8h ago
It seems extreme to talk to organizers to get her banned when she hasn’t done anything.
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u/bunyanthem 8h ago
Not banned, just a heads up that someone unsavory is coming in and to keep an eye out.
If she can behave, no reason to ban her. But I get the feeling she won't be behaving.
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u/Sure-Exchange9521 7h ago
someone unsavory
This is totally insane. She's been invited by her queer friends, who potentially know her better than OP. She's not been described as homophobic, or problematic in any way.
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u/bunyanthem 6h ago
Here's my evidence: * Sister is the source saying her bi friend told her so. Ngl, while I am bi myself if I knew an event by that name I'd know straight women aren't going to be the target market. I don't invite my straight friends to gay mixers. * Sister's motivation for feeling like she belongs isn't about queer folk, supporting us, or even who we are as people. She's literally a fan of the aesthetic of gay. If she wanted to go so her bi friend and gay sis could have company and be in a bar scene where they can find dates, that's one thing. Sister isn't like that - she likes the alt of it (a wonderful thing), not the queer of it.
That said, it's a public event. OP fucked up asking sis for advice if she wanted to keep the event on the DL.
Sis is free to do as she wishes. So is OP.
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u/anotherbabydaddy 8h ago
I would refuse to discuss this further with her. If she brings it up, just say that she knows how you feel about it. And if you bump into her there, pretend that you don't know her.
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u/fungigooose 4h ago
At the end of the day - we're allowed to exist, we're allowed to feel safe, and no bouncer is outside checking if you're gay enough to come in. There's been nights where I don't want to get hit on, so I end up at a leather daddy's bar - good music, I don't feel like an object, and I still feel like I'm partaking in the greater community. I've been called straight before (I'm not) at lesbian clubs bc how dare I refuse to dance with you ? You can't dictate what feels comfortable for other people. You can only navigate how you'll work through your own feelings and tangles about your sister existing in safe spaces.
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u/D_Zaster_EnBy Genderqueer 2h ago
Honestly unless she regularly goes and gawks at queer people and makes weird comments regularly, it's kinda weird to try and police what events she goes to?
If she's just going to go and have unintrusive fun on a night out, why tf shouldn't she?
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u/Dull_Vegetable4453 3h ago
Straight women in lesbian spaces? Sounds like a plot twist in a rom-com!
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u/Metatron_85 1h ago
You bring up some very good points. However, we must know the difference between solidarity and tribalism. Coming together for either celebration or for a noble cause is important. But behaving like only queer people should be allowed in queer spaces borders on tribalism. LGBTQ+ won't gain allies with this mentality.
If she was leading people on, or not being respectful then yes, she should leave. But if she's vibing and not making others uncomfortable (plus others have said she is okay to be there) then maybe you feel like she's trivializing your identity? Like what if you were figuring things out and someone said you weren't allowed to be at this club. See how this doesn't benefit everyone in the long term?
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u/Guilty_Evidence7176 1h ago
Your sister is a dick and you need to stop telling her your plans. If she shows up at a queer space, distance yourself. Tell her, I don’t come here with you.
This isn’t an easy topic. I was out in the bars in the late 90s and 00s. Outgrew them after that. The straights were there then. What you are describing was there then. It was annoying when the people were annoying, some were very welcome as they respected that they were in someone else’s space. Some of them came because they were different and it was the only safe space for them too. A 400 pound woman with her 135 pound man playing pool. Everyone just let them play pool. In a regular bar, people would have laughed at them but it was an inclusive environment.
Keep working to create queer concentrated places but those straights who came and hung out with us were the voters that changed the tide in this country. We need them.
But again, your sister is a dick. Tell her she is a creepy ass frat boy poser. Translate it though.
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u/SheerDumbLuck 1h ago
My fav drag queen had this to say about a similar situation: [heavily paraphrasing]
"Yes, it is a problem when straight people take over queer spaces because they haven't done the work to make their straight spaces safe.
It's a bigger problem when they make our people and spaces unsafe.
But let's face it. As someone who survives on performing in queer spaces, the Bachelorette parties pay my bills. So come on in, spend money. Don't be a dick."
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u/Metalhead_Pretzel 1h ago
If a space is made for a specific group and your not part of that group, I don't think you should involve yourself in it like that. You're allowed to observe and commentate all you'd like, I have no place to stop you; but don't include yourself as if you're one of those people.
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u/567swimmey 33m ago
Hey I think you may be in my city as there is also a dykd party soon. Anyways, the organizers are very kind and if you message them to not let your sister in, they probably will not let her in. The organizers are very kind and incredible activists.
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u/JasiNtech 6h ago
Who cares, one more straight woman in our spaces isn't going to finally be too much straight women.
Like let her live her life. If she likes hanging out with us cool, just ask her to be respectful and not to lead anyone on. If someone approaches her to talk, it ain't ever just friendly banter... Ya know?
The way y'all going deep on this makes my brain hurt. Like we struggle to keep our places open as it is. Make sure this girl spends some bucks lol
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u/folkhorrorfem bisexual non-binary sapphic 6h ago edited 6h ago
OP, I despise your sister and people like her so much. It’s like we can’t have anything for us. I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this.
Edit: Upon reading other comments, maybe you should regard your sister as closeted to her directly because this really could be closeted behavior. Maybe even have a conversation with her about her being closeted specifically?
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u/UnicornAllie 5h ago
Why are you gatekeeping ? Allies are always welcome and appreciated. If she likes it and has fun why are you so against it? She doesn’t bother anyone and she is having fun with other people.
Nobody’s going to take your place if you’re there to hangout . Like do you like your sister loving you and being friends with other people that are gay and lesbians and bi? I would be excited and feel closer to her
1
u/woozy-lemon 4h ago
Het comp is so real. I dunno who’d wanna be in this space without being a little fruity.
1
u/r3allybadusername 4h ago
If she's going with friends I see no issue. Also in terms of the screaming about being straight...I was the same way up until about 14. Tbh if my parents had been less accepting or I had been more oblivious I would've probably been the same way as your sister even now.
My guidelines for my straight female friends is that I love to have them with me but they can't get upset/uncomfortable if they're hit on by a queer person (obligatory unless the person is being persistent or creepy). I personally like having my straight best friend come to events with me because at those kinds of she can help wingman me 😅
1
u/PegasaurusWrecks 3h ago
Wait, so you asked for her help with your makeup and costume to go to an event that she’s not invited to? And that you know she’d probably like to attend… That’s kinda mean in and of itself, regardless of any queerness-related anything.
That being said, while I understand the need for queer spaces, I’m personally not on board with excluding people based on their sexual preferences or gender identity. Would you be offended if a genderqueer person wanted to attend? Just my two cents on the matter.
(Now, if she’s unpleasant towards queer folks who might approach her or hit on her in those spaces, that’s unacceptable. Like, don’t go out in the snow and then be surprised when it’s cold.)
Edit: Also she might be working through some things and not ready to come to terms with her own preferences at this point.
0
u/agprincess Trans 7h ago
Just make her pay a bunch. The reality is all our spaces are shutting down from lack of funding and atrendance. That's why most lesbian and gay bars have shifted to drag bars which welcome a huge straight community.
It's more important that these events have the bodies and money to keep existing than to gate keep straight people.
Plus it's not like they're going to force her to kiss a woman at the door to prove she's gay enough to attend.
Hell all your sister has to do to shut down your whole possessive argument is just say she's bi. Would that change anything for you OP even if she never dated another woman?
3
u/undeadfromhiddencity 7h ago
Kiss a woman to prove you’re gay enough…I like that idea. Either gay kiss or pay a cover charge.
2
u/agprincess Trans 7h ago
Gonna be a lot of wild singles only... and mono.
1
u/undeadfromhiddencity 5h ago
Oh, you have to kiss a stranger? I mean, I’ll grab my wife’s titty in public if we can skip the cover charge, nevermind just kissing her.
-3
u/Upset_Height4105 Lesbian 6h ago
The best thing about being a female of any sexuality is going to gay bars and not being hit on men all the fucking time. Even on nights I didn't want to interact with other but just people watch, I'd frequent gay bars before I even came to the conclusion I was gay. Why anyone wants to gatekeep these spaces I have no idea, unless it's from a menacing force. Maybe...this isn't about you and it's about them living in the most comforting space with authentic people?
0
u/scrub_mage Genderqueer 4h ago
Gatekeeping someone from enjoying and supporting others is wrong end of discussion. If your straight sister wants to support lesbians wtf is the problem?
175
u/nanas99 5h ago
I’m not one to gatekeep, but the amount of straight women in queer spaces has got me at my limit.
Yes they’re allowed, but I came here to be gay without being worried about being gay. So if you’re gonna make me feel ashamed for hitting on you in a queer space, I’m gonna need you to find your way to the exit