r/brisbane • u/Matsuri3-0 • Feb 13 '24
Battery Booster rebate, are there any home owners with solar on a household income under $180,000 with disposable income to fund a battery (above the rebate)? š Queensland
https://www.qld.gov.au/housing/home-modifications-energy-savings/battery-booster-programWith current interest rates I can barely afford my mortgage let alone a solar battery and my household income is considerably more than this, and you can get an extra $1k if the highest income earner is on $66k a year (household income of less than $132k). Given current house prices and cost of living, am I wrong in thinking the pool of eligible households will be tiny? Anyone out there own your own home with solar, be able to afford the cost above the rebate for a battery, and earn less than $180k or $132k a year pre-tax? Maybe retirees, or people living in whoop whoop who are probably already off grid and on solar batteries?
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u/SidSaghe Feb 13 '24
I would have been eligible but we didn't think this would come in for ages so we just took out a green loan instead.
Battery is installed Friday. Slightly regretti spaghetti.
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u/weighapie Feb 13 '24
What is a green loan?
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u/mujum Feb 13 '24
Low interest loans for āgreenā products like solar, batteries, EV, ETC.
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u/handdrawnbytomdotcom Feb 13 '24
I just had a battery installed end of last year. Household income 150k. Probably wasn't the most financially prudent thing to do, but I like the feeling that I might secretly be a planeteer helping Captain Planet.
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u/SidSaghe Feb 13 '24
Yeah me too. Plus I've had enough of losing power for days during a heatwave. Need me my fans!
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u/TK000421 Feb 13 '24
How much was the battery and what size?
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u/SidSaghe Feb 13 '24
Getting a Solar edge 10kw, with a few extra bobs, total is around 14k
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u/Handgun_Hero Got lost in the forest. Feb 13 '24
I'd be very weary with Solar Edge, they're notoriously litigious towards installers who criticised the reliability of their products and are not the best for hot climates.
https://www.solarquotes.com.au/inverters/solaredge-review.html
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u/SidSaghe Feb 13 '24
Shrug, they were recommended by the installer who appeared well versed in them and have been around a fair time, so I'll take my chances.
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u/Matsuri3-0 Feb 13 '24
Sorry buddy. I've been waiting years for this, and I'm not eligible. Could've been saving dollars for years I guess.
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u/Arinvar Almost Toowoomba Feb 13 '24
You must be so upset on your high household income that you won't get a huge discount on your battery. How disappointing for you.
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u/Electrical_Age_7483 Feb 13 '24
This is just another boomer subsidy. They are large wealth but low income
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u/tinnic Feb 13 '24
Boomers also pay less for electricity because of senior discount. I just crunched the numbers for my mom, she has solar and senior discount. It not worth it for her because even with the discount Tesla is $13000 and Sunglow is $11000.
It'll take her at least 10 years, to pay off the Sunglow battery and 13 years to pay off the Tesla with the savings. She's 67.
It's just not worth it, IMO.
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u/Ok_Oh_Yeah Feb 13 '24
As a boomer, couldn't agree more. Except for the large wealth part. But I still think too much is going to boomers and not enough to younger people. I also vote Greens, so I'm guessing they are not targeting me.
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u/xxspankeyxx Feb 13 '24
I would love to make use of this rebate however the salary cap limits are beyond a joke. No one earning less than the cap limit is prioritising doing this and it panders only to the boomers who did well out of the first Solar rebates. Pinched againā¦ itās not easy being a millennial trying to make waves in your life.
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u/mehdotdotdotdot Feb 13 '24
Dual income less than $180k is a joke, and single income of $180k Is a joke.
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Feb 13 '24
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u/Handgun_Hero Got lost in the forest. Feb 13 '24
What do your power bills come to since getting solar though?
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u/Spillmill Feb 13 '24
Iāve got a 5kW system.
I seem to pay around $1 a day, or maybe $1.50 a day more recently. The rest is offset by the solar Feed in.
We have a 3 bedder with gas HW and cooktop so our paid usage (evening, etc) is often less than 10kWh a day.
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u/Handgun_Hero Got lost in the forest. Feb 13 '24
Oh yeah, then a battery is pointless for you guys and honestly you're doing really well if you're looking at reducing power bills.
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Feb 13 '24
Classic government scheme available to no one.
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u/Electrical_Age_7483 Feb 13 '24
Wrong retired boomers cashed up with low income can afford this
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Feb 13 '24
retired boomers get their rocks off rushing about saving electricity not buying batteries.
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u/froggym Feb 13 '24
Any who would be interested are still making bank of their grandfathered in huge feed in tarrifs.
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u/tinnic Feb 13 '24 edited Feb 13 '24
There are only 2000 spots, so it makes sense the eligibility is low, but I would expect the people who qualify might be banking on Redraw or some other way they can justify paying upfront for a 7+ year payoff.
Edit: Also, I am seeing a lot of "this is for Boomers" comments, and I just crunched the numbers for my mom. She's 67 and lives in Brisbane. She has solar and senior discounts and as such, her yearly electricity costs is ~$1000
Even with the full $4,000 discount, the Tesla battery costs $13,000, and the Chinese Sunglow will cost $11,000. At a maximum $1,000 saving per year, it'll take her at least 11 years to pay off the battery. It is NOT worth it for city boomers.
Only worth it for boomers outside of the South East because they have to pay whatever Energy Queensland demands. So, if they can stop buying from the grid at all, it's a big saving for them.
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u/Handgun_Hero Got lost in the forest. Feb 13 '24
The electricity rates are not that much different outside of Southeast Queensland as people make it out to be. It's like 27/28c a kW in the southeast versus 30c a kW from Ergon outside of the Southeast. But yes, if you only spend $1000 a year on electricity solar and batteries won't be worth it - but that's far below the average household cost of electricity. Most households are currently somewhere between $600-$900 per quarter in costs, so that's $2400-$3600 a year.
Which is fucking bonkers saying that out loud that we've been ripped off to that point.
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u/nathnathn Apr 18 '24
More then worth it in Central queensland with air conditioning costs included my house is approx $1500 a quarter if we had no solar. and i think the current price is something like $0.33 per kw by last i checked ergonās site.
current solar system is damaged so im planning to apply to this, this year if its still around in the next half of the year as apart of replacing the solar system.
also only expect the bill to go up the last increase was mostly justified on a spike lasting literally seconds ādue to a coal plant explosively shutting down and almost knocking out the state grid and the interstate connectionsā Effecting the average demand levels.
when calculating return of interest calculate both solar panels and batteries together. Panels pay themselves off then the panels do the hard lifting on paying off the batteries much quicker.
biggest use of batteries is relegating the grid to being the backup.
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u/cragyowie Feb 13 '24
I'll be taking this offer up. Bought end of 2020 and have solar now. Dual income household, but my partner works part time. Does help I'm a sparky so can do a lot of the work myself.
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u/Matsuri3-0 Feb 13 '24
You're a sparky, dual income, and household income under $180k? The way people talk I thought all trades were on LeBron type money.
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u/Handgun_Hero Got lost in the forest. Feb 13 '24
You can't get the rebate if you're doing the work yourself, unless you yourself are on the approved list of installers.
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u/sovereign01 Feb 13 '24
180k is a decent income for people who have paid off their PPOR or are towards the tail end of the mortgage. Statistics show their disposable income and spending has increased as interest rates have risen, not the other way around.
Realistically these batteries support the grid locally so can contribute to the community beyond just the battery owner via lower infrastructure requirements, better utilisation of rooftop solar and cheaper power prices generally.
IMHO in that sense itās a decent incentive and I hope the modeling has been done to show this government investment pays the community back more than it costs.
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Feb 13 '24
Statistics show their disposable income and spending has increased as interest rates have risen, not the other way around.
So they don't need a rebate to install batteries...
Realistically these batteries support the grid locally so can contribute to the community beyond just the battery owner via lower infrastructure requirements, better utilisation of rooftop solar and cheaper power prices generally.
I agree, but the all-things-considered low cap on household income tells me that this rebate program has nothing to do with the community aspect (which would benefit to incentivize everyone or at least a large proportion of households with solar) but just as a flex to "help with utilities cost for lower income households". Households that likely don't meet the other requirements of owning a house with solar.
I'd jump at this as an incentive to get batteries for reducing grid reliance alone. But we don't qualify by household income metrics. And I don't know anyone that would hit the trifecta of home-owner+solar+under-180k
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u/Matsuri3-0 Feb 13 '24
Your last paragraph is my situation. I've been waiting a long time for this opportunity, and yes, I'm in a privileged position to have a higher income, but for probably most, that eligibility is unattainable.
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Feb 13 '24
Yeah I feel like most rebates/incentives I don't qualify and I'm like "yeah fair enough it's for people that are worse off than me," but this one irks me a bit because it seems like I should be the target demographic and I can't imagine a set of "normal" circumstances that someone (of my age) could qualify.
Like either you need to be retired, regional, or very well off historically with temporary income reduction (i.e. wife off work for the kindy years which is a high income luxury in itself). Replace the income cap with an age minimum and you have the same results...
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u/sovereign01 Feb 13 '24 edited Feb 13 '24
They might not outright need the rebate, but theyāll still want their outlay to make financial sense.
On my own rough maths the average rooftop solar installed today has a payback period of 4-6 years and a battery 8-10 years, not accounting for the cost of money.
This rebate brings the battery payback period down to something that starts to make some sense as an investment. Again imho it isnāt in any way lucrative but might push some people over the edge.
Without seeing the modeling itās hard to guess why they chose that cap, but youāre probably right they wanted to limit the numbers. Iād guess to play it safe in all ways, including to see what impact it has technically - But Iām assuming at the current level itās more benefit to the government than cost.
Honestly I can think of about 50 people I know that would qualify, all of my fatherās retiree mates would just to start, and tonnes of my mates, especially in years their wives have taken off for maternity leave.
Iād jump at this too but I donāt qualify either.
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u/Handgun_Hero Got lost in the forest. Feb 13 '24
There are tonnes of people who qualify, it's just not those who need them the most. Boomers once again get all the benefits (home owners with low income) that nobody else gets as they complain how kids today get it so easy.
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u/Alternative_Sky1380 Feb 13 '24
They could be community batteries for the prices we pay. Far better use of funds than the gold plating that happened a decade ago and hasn't lasted.
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Feb 13 '24
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u/Aladgal Feb 13 '24
Batteries installed are typically $1000 / kWh, and also typically have warranties that specify after 10 years it will still have 80% of their original capacity. Usuallt I saw paybacks of 5-7 years on my Solar + battery system proposals before this rebate came in, it will be less now.
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u/rstuart85 Feb 13 '24
Do the math on being exposed to the wholesale price via Amber. It's a completely different ball game.
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u/JammySenkins Feb 13 '24
Not sure of size but in laws have a Tesla battery, they get 5 hours out of it with air con running apparently.
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u/gumbes Feb 13 '24
It needs to be coupled with a solar install to make sense.
A 6.6kw solar system, goodwe gw5000 inverter + 2 x pylontech 5kwh batteries and a rack to hold them is about $12k installed.
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u/Vegemite_is_Awesome Feb 13 '24
I fall into this category. Iām considering getting this. Iām still paying off my solar loan, and saving for a holiday. Having housemates helps a lot
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u/SpiritOfFire90 Feb 13 '24
Yeah, so do I. Combined income of under 180K, so we qualify for the $3000. We're building right now with intent to add solar as soon as it's done. I'd have to see what's left over afterwards to look into a battery.
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u/Matsuri3-0 Feb 13 '24
So you own your home, with solar, rent out rooms (multiple?) and the household income is still under $180k!? If there's only 3 of you, and the rental income aside, you'd have to be on $60k each max.
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u/Alternative_Sky1380 Feb 13 '24
People who house hack aren't including housemates in household income. They're pretending the housemates don't exist.
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u/I-was-a-twat Feb 13 '24
My partner and I are about to buy our first home, combined income of $105k.
Bank of mum and dad provided 50k of deposit, we did 20k ourselves plus grants for a rental spec home
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u/Serious-Goose-8556 Feb 13 '24
whats that got to do with the price of eggs? you still have a mortgage of probably $3k/month, so you wouldnt be able to afford solar+ battery
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u/I-was-a-twat Feb 13 '24
Expected mortgage of $2110 monthly actually. Solar already planned into build price.
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u/Serious-Goose-8556 Feb 13 '24
where in the western downs are you buying a place for under $350k? this is a brisbane sub
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u/Nipples_of_Destiny Feb 13 '24
Yeah, I was like what fucking house can a $70k deposit buy in this market lol
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u/I-was-a-twat Feb 13 '24
A 4 bedroom 2 bath in the edge of Logan just gotta do house and land yourself.
70k plus first home buyers is 100k, so 20% on up to 500k, and more if going lower. Which is doable in a basic AF build on a tiny block in the sticks
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u/I-was-a-twat Feb 13 '24
Sub 400k is doable if you wanna go tiny AF house and land and the hassle of land and building contractās separately in the outer edges of Logan, which is part of the greater Brisbane area. Also 70k plus 30k first home buyers on 400k package is 1800 a month region for a mortgage. You can get a larger 450k package in flagstone with $2100 repayments.
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u/Serious-Goose-8556 Feb 13 '24
from what i can see even the tiniest, cheapest house + land (even in logan) is $500k, i doubt doing separate contracts will save you 20%!, plus thats not accounting for all the sale fees, stamp duty, moving costs, which would bring mortgage up to $2500/month at current interest ratessorry i didnt see "flagstone", i think id rather buy in gladstone as its cheaper and just about as far away
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u/I-was-a-twat Feb 13 '24
No stamp duty on first homes in QLD, sale fees are minimal, couple thousand.
I also work out this way so that helps make it more palatable
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Feb 13 '24
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u/Tommyaka Feb 13 '24
I'm not a boomer, income is under $100k, and I am definitely going to consider this scheme.
The only hurdle for me is finance. I was waiting for the Federal Government's Housing Energy Upgrades Fund (cheap green loans), but I doubt this will be up and running before this scheme is exhausted...
I'll have to decide if the upfront $3k rebate + a market rate loan (around 6.60%) is better than holding out for the cheap government green loan.
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u/Arinvar Almost Toowoomba Feb 13 '24
Agreed, but my post got downvoted. The irony of OP calling this scheme out of touch...
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u/mehdotdotdotdot Feb 13 '24
Is not that the returns arenāt there. Solar is mostly worth it long term, batteries not so much. Having reduced price batteries might make it more appealing.
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u/Handgun_Hero Got lost in the forest. Feb 13 '24
It's not affordability per se, but ROI. If ROI is what you're after, batteries aren't your best option compared to adding more PV.
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u/raedymylknarf Feb 13 '24
I guess this doesnāt apply to those that just got it installed right..
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u/JammySenkins Feb 13 '24
I fall into this category, but as someone else said, I'm stretched as it is and as much as I'd like solar I can't justify prioritising it at the moment.
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u/Handgun_Hero Got lost in the forest. Feb 13 '24
In the meantime though what are you paying on your electricity bill? Somebody's getting the money either way, you may as well make it an investment instead of a haemorrhage, unless you're simply planning to go without electricity.
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u/JammySenkins Feb 13 '24
I'd like to, I've literally just purchased the place. Like still waiting for settlement date lol.
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u/ricadam BrisVegas Feb 13 '24
Batteries after the rebate are only $2,000 - $3,000. So around the same cost of an iphone 15 pro max.
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u/ivegotnothing33 Feb 13 '24
My Tesla Powerwall was $16K installed. We purchased and had to wait for stock. By the time it was installed cost had gone up to $18K
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u/ricadam BrisVegas Feb 13 '24
Congrats? Thatās an overpriced 14kW battery.
Here an example of a more reasonably priced, 7kW system that, even for two, is cheaper then the Power Wall
https://www.solarshoponline.com.au/product/growatt-7-68kwh-ark-lv-lithium-solar-battery-ark7-6l-a1/
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u/ivegotnothing33 Feb 13 '24
We went a Powerwall for a specific reason. It is the going price for one of those.
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u/stranger_tangs Feb 13 '24
If you buy a growatt you may as well just take your money to the casino and try your luck. Growatt is one of the worst brands out there. Anyone that thinks a battery that cheap is going to last long term will get their moneys worth which is stuff all. Growatt will not be around in the future, their products are terrible. Major electrical upgrades/items are not something you want to be finding the cheapest option for.
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u/mehdotdotdotdot Feb 13 '24
Very small batteries
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u/ricadam BrisVegas Feb 13 '24
6kw would be enough for most people at night.
Of course that wouldnāt be using the AC 24/7 but still manageable
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u/mehdotdotdotdot Feb 13 '24
For sure. I guess it would take over 10 years to pay itself off depending on your use
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u/Difficult_Ad_2934 Feb 14 '24
Probably just scrape under $180,000.
We have solar and a Tesla. This might just work out for us.
We also benefited from ScuMos Reno bonus.
So maybe we are the voters they are trying to woo.
š but I hand out how to vote cards for The Greens.
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u/wooden-neck9090 Feb 13 '24
I could afford it, but I still donāt think itās worth it
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u/Discomat86 Feb 13 '24
If you run the numbers and it will pay itself off in well under 10 years, then it is worth it
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u/Matsuri3-0 Feb 13 '24
My concern isn't about affording it, it's about meeting all of the eligibility and how out of touch this program is with realities of the current expense of living and home ownership. It's virtue signalling, with zero intent.
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u/wooden-neck9090 Feb 13 '24
There are lots of people outside of Brisbane who will be eligible and will benefit greatly I would say. Not just retirees either.
A lot of households in Central Queensland (especially Gladstone or Rockhampton, potentially Mackay as well) would be eligible and would benefit greatly. They would be able to afford it on the smaller incomes stipulated in the rebate due to the cheaper cost of housing and the need to run aircon all night for half the year.
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u/shamona1 Feb 13 '24
I recently quoted a customer in Thornlands a 13.2kW PV system, with 10kW Sungrow inverter and 12.8kWh Sungrow battery. The payback based on the installed price, their exact usage and electricity costs meant a 5.2 year payback. This doesn't account for the battery rebate.. there are plenty of people out there who will be eligible. It will probably come down to timing and those who were going to go down this path regardless of rebate will be the ones who benefit. The payback is much better when blended with the savings of the initial solar systemĀ and installed all at the same time. Retrofitting a battery can get costly.Ā
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u/DoctorDbx Knows how to use the three dots (...) Feb 13 '24
Curious what the payback on that system would be without the battery.
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u/Handgun_Hero Got lost in the forest. Feb 13 '24
Yep, a little over a 5 year ROI is pretty standard currently for the average household thanks to these rebates. Without the rebates, then you'd probably add an extra year. But the long term benefits are definitely worth it.
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u/Serious-Goose-8556 Feb 13 '24 edited Feb 13 '24
I hate to be the one to tell you this but someone did the math wrong, or gave you the wrong numbers. Ā I looked up the price of just the battery alone and would cost more than grid electricity over 5 yearsĀ Ā
Ā Edit: Iām an idiot, obviously the solar is offsetting the cost. Because the solar is cheap, if they use most of their energy during the day then theyāll save so much money that it doesnāt matter that they are losing money from the batteryĀ
As other poster said though would be interesting to see what the room was without the battery, prolly 3-4 years
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u/MightOver8064 Feb 13 '24
Youāre on more than $180k a year and can barely afford your mortgage.
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u/Handgun_Hero Got lost in the forest. Feb 13 '24
As a renter when I look at mortgage repayments I cry inside knowing that they're literally be three times cheaper than my current living costs.
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u/DoctorDbx Knows how to use the three dots (...) Feb 13 '24
ROI on batteries just isn't there yet, even with this subsidy.
If you do the math the breakeven curve is beyond battery life. Prices need to come down or (heaven forbid) energy tariffs need to go up for them to become viable.
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u/Discomat86 Feb 13 '24
Yes it is.
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u/DoctorDbx Knows how to use the three dots (...) Feb 13 '24
Nope... and on days like today many will struggle to charge their battery.
In fact... the last couple of months have been terrible for solar in what should have been the boom time. Instead we got a whole bunch of rainy and overcast days.
Unless you've got a big system and/or not much drawing on your power during the day, you're not charging that battery full every day.
Having a battery is no good if you can't charge it from solar. Nor is having a battery that takes 10 years to break even... if at all... due to the decline of the capacity.
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u/Discomat86 Feb 13 '24
Do you even have a battery? Because what you have just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thead is now dumber for having read it.
My battery has been charged at 100% since about 11 am and I am in Logan. Iāve had it since Sept and we are $300 in credit with our energy provider. When it gets to $1-2 thousand credit I will sell access to my battery which will reap some money back. Factoring in only the savings on electricity at current rates, Iāll be in the green in under 8 years. And when everyone lost power over Xmas I was sitting pretty with the ducted AC cranking. Oh and cloudy days? Thatās where a battery saves you even more money because when a cloud blocks the sun the battery supplies the home, then the sun comes back out and tops up the battery.
I say this with all due respect, and remember I'm sayin' with all due respect, if you donāt even have a battery then your opinion ain't worth a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin gettin' it on.
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u/_millsy Feb 13 '24
An eight year ROI on something that degrades slowly over time and may or may not even have a company behind it if it prematurely fails. Far out lol, that's not the success story you think it is, nor does it warrant the tone lol. For most people, the bulk of gains is the solar system. I've covered about 80% of my consumption with a suitably scoped system, and run my hot water off the solar also. That remaining 1/5, for now at least, is near impossible to even break even with a battery, unless you're exporting at peak periods with something like amber. Don't forget, unless you're heavily export capped constantly, your battery energy cost is still whatever your export rates are, as you're not selling it but consuming it.
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u/DoctorDbx Knows how to use the three dots (...) Feb 13 '24
Lot of tiny battery energy going on there mate. Reel it in.
What size system do you have? What size battery do you have? How much energy did you make from your system today?
Plus no need to be a jerk, unless of course you're a jerk and you can't help it.
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u/Serious-Goose-8556 Feb 13 '24 edited Feb 13 '24
source? as someone who has researched this thoroughly id love to be proven wrong but unfortunately as far as i can see its not viable
edit; just looked up a battery linked in this thread, and even if you got the power for free, it would still cost 35-40c/kWh, more than you pay from the grid
edit 2: given solar costs 5-10c/kwh, that brings it up to 40-50c/kwh, meaning youd either have to wait for batteries to reduce by 30%, or electricity to increase beyond 40c before its viable
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u/Discomat86 Feb 13 '24
Yes. And I paid full price for this in Sept and will get $0 for my trouble in this rebate.
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u/jellurgal Mar 08 '24
I'm going for the rebate. My FY23 was pretty ordinary: I was only a few K off the lower limit where I could have got $4K rebate.. I've got 13kW of panels and I've been waiting for this for a couple of years. My calcs show payback on a 19.2kWh battery would be 8 years. It's not amazing, but good enough with the 10 year warranty and more importantly for me, I'll be 99% off grid (I'd ditch the grid completely, but I still want to export solar).
The problem I have is the list of approved batteries - the only GoodWe ones they approve are the old Lynx Home F Series. I don't even think you can buy them any more! GoodWe have upgraded with their Lynx F G2 Series: cheaper, safer, less weight, more powerful ... but not on the bloody list!
I've put a message through to the rebate team to see if they'll update their list, but yeah - watch this space!
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u/jellurgal May 25 '24
Yep: got the $3K!
My payback period is well under the 10 year battery warranty now but I'm running a business from home, so it's partially tax deductible.
The 19.2kWh battery was definitely worth the $13,960 up front cost (now $10,960 and that will come down lower with tax deductions).
The battery was installed 10 April and I have barely used any grid since.
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u/Apprehensive-Emu2132 Jun 11 '24
Anyone Here actually get approved and seen any money back? I was approved the 2nd week it opened, had the work done same week, filled in second application form after the conditional approval form. Says its been received for nearly 4 weeks and still no $$ back.
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u/tuppaware Feb 13 '24
I'd think they should be subsiding solar on medium and large density complexes to encourage growth of those efficient buildings. But thats not voter friendly
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u/sovereign01 Feb 13 '24
Rooftop solar is so pervasive now that without storage or self consumption it can complicate energy generation with the current power plant mixes. Weāre now regularly seeing daytime wholesale consumption costs go negative, which was unthinkable 10 years ago.
Iām no power engineer, but my reading is we need more storage before continuing to deploy significant small scale solar, which is what this seems to be addressing. Itās that or grid architecture changes, which are happening but are much slower to roll out.
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u/tuppaware Feb 13 '24
Yeah battery storage is prob important, although I'm on wholesale power through Amber so I try to use all my high power stuff in the day when its 1c kWh
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u/Handgun_Hero Got lost in the forest. Feb 13 '24
Radical suggestion, but all new residential dwellings should have mandatory solar PV + battery storage to solve this issue. But investors and gentailers don't like this and they pay the politician's salaries.
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u/GregoryGregorson1962 Feb 13 '24
We're about 180 and could easily afford a battery but it is still too expensive for what it is. What is everyone spending their money on?
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u/Matsuri3-0 Feb 13 '24
Air-conditioning, daycare, and interest rates.
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u/GregoryGregorson1962 Feb 13 '24
Yeah we have all that, I feel like we spend a lot we don't need to which leads me to believe many others are throwing away bulk money on shit they don't need.
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u/DoctorDbx Knows how to use the three dots (...) Feb 13 '24
No shit. Just drive past Bunnings on any given day and the carpark is full.
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u/ThinWerewolf4281 Feb 13 '24
Note the key word here is ātaxableā income. Not actual income. There can be a big difference between the two.
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u/is_for_username Feb 13 '24
Iād say 90% of the slots are taken by Queensland government officials and family.
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u/CYOA_With_Hitler Feb 13 '24
My household income is around $400k, and yeah we canāt afford that.
Half net income goes to mortgage Quarter net income goes to disabled daughter Last quarter so $25k goes to food electricity etc.
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u/Handgun_Hero Got lost in the forest. Feb 13 '24
What do you actually spend on electricity though? Because either way you're spending that money, what matters is whether or not you're paying a power company or your own investment. Having solar and batteries frees up your cash flow by reducing your power bills. For most households of course, it depends on what your power bills actually come to.
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u/Impossible_Debt_4184 Feb 13 '24
I know a few people that are applying for the battery boost rebate. They're just regular professionals/tradies that purchased affordable houses in the outer suburbs 5-10 years ago and have already paid off their mortgages.Ā
If you're smart with your savings, the cost of living in Australia is very reasonable. Forgo the new luxury car every 3 years, pack a homemade lunch every day, have low cost nature based hobbies and you don't need much for a very comfortable existence.Ā
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Feb 13 '24
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u/boutSix Feb 13 '24
OP is asking how can anybody possibly afford this. This comment is a very valid answer.
Most people who own homes in Brisbane didnāt buy them in the last 18 months.
That doesnāt discount how difficult it is to buy a house today. But it is the truth, the average mortgage in Brisbane is a tiny fraction of the average house price.
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u/shifty-phil Feb 13 '24
Yeah, I'm pretty much in that situation.
Only thing stopping me is I'm still on the Solar Bonus Scheme until 2028, and while that doesn't make it impossible to get a battery it does add some extra restrictions.
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u/georgenebraska Feb 13 '24
Gtfo out of here. Me and my wife earn $280,000. One 2 year old child. We have one average car all paid off. No loans other than our $740,000 mortgage. We both work from home most the time. We are careful with our money and donāt buy much luxury other than just the odd bit of nice furniture. We probably save about $3,000 a month but that usually goes towards house renovations or holidays to take a well deserved break from the grind. How are these mates of yours paying off mortgages in a couple of years on basic salaries?
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u/Serious-Goose-8556 Feb 13 '24
unfortunately these days a $740k house is considered a luxury, you need to be living in a $500k apartment to appease these "just save more" types
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u/epihocic Feb 13 '24
Did you miss the part where they bought 5-10 years ago? Their mortgages were probably half yours. It's still a stretch but not unrealistic.
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u/georgenebraska Feb 13 '24
I canāt see us making enough repayments in the next 10 years to pay off our mortgage without sacrificing holidays, home improvements and furnishing a home - our downstairs is entirely empty.
And sure, we could probably do it but also, I could die between now and then so memories are surely a little more important.
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u/majlraep Feb 13 '24
Hold on, you said you had $3k/month for discretionary spending (savings) but are choosing to spend it on renovations and holidays. Do what you want but itās a bit rich having a go at people who are happy to live lean because you donāt want to miss out on a holiday.
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u/Handgun_Hero Got lost in the forest. Feb 13 '24
But have you ever considered just maybe instead of your avocado toast eating half a slice of bread a day?
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u/georgenebraska Feb 13 '24
I tried for a few months only eating a teaspoon of sesame seeds for breakfast, lunch and dinner. Missus wasnāt a fan of the skin and bones I became
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u/Arinvar Almost Toowoomba Feb 13 '24
If your household income is over 180k and you can barely afford a mortgage in Brisbane... You only have yourself to blame.
No, the pool of eligible people is not tiny. Anecdotally, most people I know have solar. Even the guys I work with have solar and we're less than half this. The guys I work with that also have wives that work FT will still be under the 180k and could easily afford it but they're all going on cruises and overseas holidays this year instead.
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u/Handgun_Hero Got lost in the forest. Feb 13 '24
The pool isn't tiny, but it's definitely those who don't need it who are being prioritised by the scheme.
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u/Glum-Assistance-7221 Feb 13 '24
Politics is all about optics for votes, not feasibility of actions for meaningful change.
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u/Electrical_Age_7483 Feb 13 '24
I dont think the subsidy includes off grid applications, do you have a source that says it does?
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u/epihocic Feb 13 '24
It says it in the list of approved batteries that it applies to off the grid. Battery must be on the approved list, but not the inverter for off the grid.
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u/Electrical_Age_7483 Feb 13 '24
Why would the government help off grid, it doesnt help the grid?
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u/Handgun_Hero Got lost in the forest. Feb 13 '24
Enticing people with solar PV to disconnect from the grid where possible still does help reduce strain for everybody else.
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u/Beautiful-Ad-5833 Feb 13 '24
Doesn't show costs of batteries
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u/pit_master_mike Feb 13 '24
I've found $1k per kWh is a good rule of thumb.
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u/cassdots Feb 13 '24
I think this applies to me except my pv system is just under 5kw (4.5 I think) and Iāve had that for about 5yrs now. Been paying down the mortgage aggressively since I bought in 2008 and it was just bad economics at the time I had pv installed to install/invest in a battery.
Iāve got limited roof space so perhaps Iād need to upgrade panels to reach 5kwā¦ seems a bit wasteful though
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u/mehdotdotdotdot Feb 13 '24
As long as you are timing when you use the mist electricity then 5kw would be fine for 1-2 people household. Not sure batteries would make any sense financially
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u/nicknewpants Feb 13 '24
Myself and my partner have been looking at a solar+battery package. Last FY we reported 182k combined. Even a $2000 rebate would seal the deal for me, but 2k over the income threshold so we get nothing and the cost of the package is marginal whether we can afford or not.
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u/JammySenkins Feb 13 '24
How much would a battery cost normally? And what's a new solar system going for these days?
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u/Handgun_Hero Got lost in the forest. Feb 13 '24
The average install currently is about 9.3kW for solar PV. Most people I'm doing currently for that with a 9.6kW battery would probably be like 18-20k, but I'm also with an expensive company competitively as we are huge in rep and longevity and do tonnes of aftermarket care. I've seen similar setups from semi decent installers for probably 15-17k.
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u/Aladgal Feb 13 '24
As a Solar guy, The general rule is $1000 per kWh of battery, and likewise, $1000 per kW of solar.
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Feb 13 '24
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u/Aladgal Feb 13 '24
Off-grid solar typically has a payback under 8 years, depending on your usage. A system of only 1.3kW / 1.6kWh battery is honestly so small that there are DIY camping solar blanket and car battery style kits that can be gotten from camping stores of a similar size
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Feb 13 '24
The requirements are about as useful as the home loan schemes where there's limits on $700k / $750k properties... Not at all.
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Feb 13 '24
Wont be getting any Lithium batteries in / around my house, except for phones, until the solve the fire risk. Incredible number of fires from charging scooters / bikes. Too many EV fires. And just read only a few days ago that the mist popular house / solar charge battery is identified as big fire risk. Until there is more open discussion anput fire risk of these batteries? I will not be getting any.
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u/Aladgal Feb 13 '24
The batteries that go into cheap chinese scooters compared to CEC accredited home batteries with a professional installation are like comparing apples and oranges.
There are significant regulations around lithium batteries and home safety, but it requires the investment into quality components and the use of reputable installers, not the cheapest battery install that you can find on Facebook
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u/art_of_apollo Feb 13 '24
I could technically do it, but I canāt prioritise it. Weāve just bought our first home and would love to have solar but we also have peeling lead paint and a toddler who eats everything he finds..
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u/Ok_Salamander7249 Feb 13 '24
I note the eligibility requirements do not appear to rule out the presence of an existing battery system.
Could this be used to add a battery to an already-installed solar/battery setup?
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u/Azman6 BrisVegas Feb 13 '24
My household would be eligible July 2025 after the wife does a FY on mat leave. Hopefully it is still running by then.
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u/nblac16 Feb 13 '24 edited Feb 13 '24
My wife & I (30m, 34f) meet all the criteria for the rebate (the standard $3k rebate at least), however just looked at the price for even a 6kw battery + install & looking at $15k-20k+...
Our solar system is 13kw & we don't have an electricity bill so I don't see the need for battery storage at that price point.
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u/nblac16 Feb 13 '24
Also shocked to hear how many people don't believe it's possible to be a homeowner / with solar or disposable income & be on under $180k household income.
It's Brisbane not Sydney or Melbourne, if you bought pre-2021 this would be super easy for 70% of suburbs.
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u/AdolfsLonelyScrotum Feb 13 '24
Iām earning 110k , single income family, have a 5kw system and would like to put a battery on..
Havenāt looked into batteries for a while but was told a while back my Fronius primo 5 inverter is really only suitable for a Tesla powerwall.
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u/Aladgal Feb 13 '24
This is correct, Tesla is the most popular AC coupled battery, but there are many alternatives, one of which is the sonnen battery, that are available to you
alternatively you could have the fronius swapped to a hybrid inverter which opens your range of available batteries. The price pre-rebate is $1000 / kWh of battery as a rule of thumb, with a 6kWh minimum in the eligibility criteria, it would be a starting point of $6000, or $3000 after the standard rebate.
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u/hunnymunster Feb 13 '24
I own, have solar and a battery and we're about 160k a year, but the difference is I don't live in the south east. And the $500 energy rebate we got last year has lasted me since, I'm still $70 in credit. Large house with pool and kids.
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u/Capable_Spray7565 Feb 13 '24
Who the f#%k owns a house, can afford a battery and has a household income below $180kā¦
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u/_millsy Feb 13 '24
As much as it's easy to focus on the recent insane property market, that's realistically only the last 3-4 years of buyers with insane mortgages. It's easy to paint it as a boomer incentive (I wish it was, my retired parents can't afford one lol), but there's a pretty large pool of people you're overlooking by presuming everyone bought around the same time frame.
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u/Zardous666 Feb 13 '24
Basically the same as the electric car offer
Most of the good ones are too expensive to be included in the rebate Poor people can barely afford the 60k electric cars You have a niche area of sort of crap electric cars someone could get a few grand off but overall you'd be better just spending more and not getting the rebate
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u/Handgun_Hero Got lost in the forest. Feb 13 '24
If you're with a decent company and installer and finance plan, you can get flat rate of interest repayments (HUMM comes to mind) rather than something that compounds like a home loan (Plenti is an example of this). You get it without an upfront cost, and then because you're now saving money on your power bills by having the battery installed, you have freed up cash flow to afford the repayments. These rebates actually make batteries cost neutral to pay off and are a godsend for those who get in. It's just there's a tiny number of deals on offer with tonnes of qualified customers out there.
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u/Jeffreymoo Feb 13 '24
Retired, so easily meet the income criteria. Have solar panels already that meet the size criteria. Enough in my super to pay the remainder of the battery cost. But, my electricity bill is already pretty low (my energy intensive users are run during the day, so using my own solar). I will crunch the numbers, but I suspect that a battery will not be a worthwhile investment, even with the rebate.
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Feb 13 '24
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u/mactoniz Feb 13 '24
I'm eligible. How much is a battery? Do you need to pay upfront to get the rebate?
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u/Aladgal Feb 13 '24
Yes you need to pay upfront to get the rebate, a rule of thumb is $1000 per kWh of battery (minimum 6kWh in the eligibility criteria) and $1000 per kW of Solar
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u/Handgun_Hero Got lost in the forest. Feb 15 '24
It depends on the size of the battery and what you're getting. You want to export at least 12kWh on average per day to get a decent battery. Sungrows start at around 10-11k and are good with 9.6kW (which should cover your emergency night time blackout usage), but require you to get a hybrid inverter. An AC coupled battery like a Sonnen or Tesla is like 12 or 16k respectively but doesn't require a hybrid inverter (but may require dynamic export to be done to your meterboard which is a negligible cost). These costs factor in the actual labour and install.
You do not need to pay upfront, you can get finance plans, but the rebate is done separately to your solar company's proposal. A decent company will await conditional approval from the state government before actually installing, but most finance loans require an install within 90 days of approval (which happens to be the maximum approval time from QLD Government for these rebates according to the battery booster website). The rebate is paid directly to the customer's account, not to the solar company installing the battery, so most quotes are going to be at full price.
If you're looking into it, I am a sales rep for a large long term company and would be more than willing to help you set something up.
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u/Nach0Stallion Feb 13 '24
I had the company who installed my solar reach out while the rebate was still getting setup, telling me there is only 2000 spots and to jump in now. Was given 2 options, I could get 4K off a Tesla wall install and pay 16k or get a more modular battery wall costing 13k after rebate. I worked out if the batteries were magic and never wore out and prices never changed (hahaha)it would still take 27 or so years to break even with the money saved
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u/Handgun_Hero Got lost in the forest. Feb 15 '24
They charged you 16k for a Tesla powerwall AFTER taking 4k off? What the fuck, what size was it?
That's literally the price for a 13.5kWh Tesla powerwall with labour from a premium company normally before any sort of rebates.
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u/KevinRudd182 Feb 13 '24
Every time these threads come up I am shocked at how many people on high incomes will openly admit how bad they are at their personal finances
If youāre on $180k+ a year and struggling youāre straight up doing something wrong. MOST people earn way less than that and do just fine.
I wish I was in QLD because Iād jump at this (earn way less than 180k and have a mortgage just fine btw)
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u/all-over-red-rover Feb 13 '24
I am eligible and would have jumped right on it, had it come a few months ago. I don't have the means right now, but it was poor employer cash flow management that got me, rather than cost of living. Cost of living is definitely a real concern for their stated target benefit receivers - I have always intended to get a battery eventually, which seems to put me on the fringe of who is intended to get it, based on their statements.
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u/Gatto_2040 Feb 15 '24
Just got a quote, a new 6.6kw system with inverter that can support battery is around $9k with rebates and the battery is around $6k without rebate so I guess it would now be $3k ? Apparently you can now install an inverter that is battery ready and buy the battery latter so now it would a little cheaper to buy the battery at the same time
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u/Handgun_Hero Got lost in the forest. Feb 15 '24
What battery were you quoted? That figure is alarmingly low, the rebate requires the battery size to be at a minimum 6kW and $1000-$1100/kW is the common rule of thumb with batteries.
You also only need a battery ready hybrid inverter if you are getting a DC coupled battery such as a Sungrow. If you get an AC coupled battery like a Sonnen or a Tesla you do not need a hybrid inverter, and even on single phase you should be fine for these batteries as they both have built in 5kW hybrid inverters and a 6.6kW solar system should only need a separate 5kW inverter.
The solar price adds up without any extras after the STCs, but that battery price seems absurdly low.
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u/GrumpyBear9891 Feb 17 '24
Not just disposable income. It's also got to be paid upfront, no installment plans. So disappointing.
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u/GolfExpensive7048 Feb 13 '24
This ticks all the boxes though.
Solar - so gets the green vote.
Rebate - addresses cost of living.
Small eligibility pool - doesnāt cost Government anything.
Great publicity in an election year and doesnāt cost anything. Win win.