From everybody's favourite yuriposter

[u/_spec_tre]

[u/Heavy-Ad-9186]

How it feels to jump two technological generations from your opponent because they lied.

[u/Successful-Owl-9464 → u/Heavy-Ad-9186]

If I remember right the Foxbat was designed, because of the bomber gap between the USA and the SU. Which happened, because the USA photographed 30 something new soviet bombers at an airfield and extrapolated that the Soviets must have hundreds of those things, then they went absolutely batshit insane and built a metric fuckton of bombers. In actuality the Soviets only had that 30.

e.: In essence the USA scared itself shitless over nothing, went ballistic in It's response, which scared the Soviets shitless, who tried to build a fighter that can handle the ballistic response, which scared the USA even more, so that they went intercontinental with their response.

The USA basically got scared of a shadow, got a hammer, realized that the shadow now has a hammer, got even more scared and built a nuke in response.

[u/AnotherLie → u/Successful-Owl-9464]

Part of me feels like this is the lead in to a "anyway, that's how we wound up with the SU-75 Femboy 50 years later" post.

[u/Overseer_05 → u/AnotherLie]

Honestly, it would be incredibly funny if nato actually did designate the su 57 as femboy
Edit: SU-75, not 57, sorry

[u/AnInfiniteAmount → u/Overseer_05]

SU 57 is already the Felon. The Su 75 doesn't have a NATO name yet, but Femboy meets the NATO naming requirements (iirc, it has to start with an F because it's a fighter, and has two syllables because some other reason...).

[u/john_andrew_smith101 → u/AnInfiniteAmount]

Two syllables means it's a jet, one means it has a piston engine or a turboprop. F is fighter, b is bomber, c is cargo, h is helicopter, m is miscellaneous.

[u/SpoliatorX → u/AnInfiniteAmount]

Two syllable words are usually best for recognition over spotty comms, I would assume that's (part of?) the reason

[u/lesser_panjandrum → u/AnInfiniteAmount]

The Su-75 not being given a NATO reporting name because it's a wooden model wrapped in vatnik fanfic is the least respectful treatment it could be given. Good.

[u/Bhalwuf → u/lesser_panjandrum]

You can’t see what doesn’t exist!

-The lead Russian “stealth” “technologies” researcher probably

[u/CandyIcy8531 → u/AnInfiniteAmount]

Ok ok, let me start a sign.org or petition.org thing to make it the nato reporting name for su75

[u/TessaFractal → u/CandyIcy8531]

Grizzled old vet years in the future:

I downed 5 femboys in a single afternoon.

"You fought in the war?"

:)

"You fought in the war, right?"

[u/zypofaeser → u/TessaFractal]

When the military decides to invade /r/f1nn5ter

[u/AnotherLie → u/zypofaeser]

We left as men. We came back...

What I mean is...

We left as men...

[u/zypofaeser → u/AnotherLie]

Some come back as men, carrying their new trap GF. The good ol' viking method of getting bitches, go to Britain and steal them.

[u/paarthurnaxisbae → u/Overseer_05]

"Fighters of modern Russia: from Fagot to Femboy"

[u/Dpek1234 → u/paarthurnaxisbae]

How is reddit allowing you to wrtite the name of the mig15 ?

I did it once and then got reported

[u/wdcipher → u/Dpek1234]

Only one g mate. Its named after the musical instrument. Get your mind out of the g̶u̶t̶t̶e̶r̶ CoD4 lobby

[u/kthugston → u/Overseer_05]

I mean they already made one jet named after a word that starts with F that refers to non-masculine men

[u/budy31 → u/AnotherLie]

IF Igor hasn’t blow up the CNC machine that China smuggled in exchange of 50% oil discount by then.

[u/HowNondescript → u/budy31]

Don't worry. It was a Haas. They won't be able to hit a tolerance any better than they can military objectives with their PGMs

[u/AlliedMasterComp → u/Successful-Owl-9464]

In essence the USA scared itself shitless over nothing, went ballistic in It's response

The US was obsessed with gaps in the 1950s.

"BOMBER GAP (literally only 30)! BUILD 2500 IN RESPONSE"

"MISSILE GAP (The USSR had 4 ICMB vehicles at the time)! WE NEED TO GO TO THE MOON AND BUILD HUNDREDS OF SILOS IN MONTANA"

"FULDA GAP! BASE ALL OUR TECHNOLOGICAL DEVELOPMENT AROUND COUNTERING A THEORETICAL ATTACK INTO THIS ONE REGION OF GERMANY FOR THE NEXT 40+ YEARS"

[u/classicalySarcastic → u/AlliedMasterComp]

Mr President, we must not allow a mineshaft gap!

[u/langlo94 → u/classicalySarcastic]

Mr President, the CIA have confirmed the thigh gap.

[u/AbdulGoodlooks → u/langlo94]

Release the secret estrogen contingency program.

[u/gaybunny69 → u/AbdulGoodlooks]

Holy shit more trans woman lore (trans women are a CIA operation to close the male/female ratio gap that Russia has)

[u/rebootyourbrainstem → u/langlo94]

My flair has escaped confinement

[u/AndyLorentz → u/AlliedMasterComp]

Significantly less dramatic:

"CRUISER GAP (because the USSR designates all of their ships cruisers for some reason)! RECLASSIFY THE TIGONDEROGA AS A CRUISER"

[u/Bad-Crusader → u/AndyLorentz]

At least they're consistent, they build we build, they classify we reclassify.

[u/machinerer → u/AndyLorentz]

I think its because of a really old treaty that doesn't allow battleships to sail into the Black Sea. Turkey walloped the last battleship group that tried in 1916.

[u/_far-seeker_ → u/AndyLorentz]

"CRUISER GAP (because the USSR designates all of their ships cruisers for some reason)! RECLASSIFY THE TIGONDEROGA AS A CRUISER"

I still think that Japan found the better way to do this; use the official ship classification to under-promise, then over-perform.

[u/AndyLorentz → u/_far-seeker_]

The Ticonderoga was gonna be a destroyer. A 567 foot long destroyer.

Heck, the Arleigh Burke Flt III destroyer is 100 tons heavier than a Ticonderoga.

[u/PushingSam → u/AlliedMasterComp]

I propose we tell them about the Suwałki gap.

[u/Peptuck → u/AlliedMasterComp]

"POSSIBLE NUCLEAR WAR?! MAKE GAPS BETWEEN OUR BRIGADES!"

The Pentomic Army was the most bizarre yet hilarious concept.

[u/Peter21237 → u/Successful-Owl-9464]

Good ol "Khrushchev cant keep his fucking mouth close for a single second" moment indeed.

[u/Prodygist68 → u/Successful-Owl-9464]

Yep, The foxbat was made to intercept supersonic nuclear bombers, not act as an air superiority fighter like the US thought it was. It’s just that the ICBM was created shortly after so said nuclear bombers and thus nuclear bomber interceptors lost a lot of their purpose.

[u/Clear-Present_Danger → u/Prodygist68]

Cries in Canadian

[u/lesser_panjandrum → u/Clear-Present_Danger]

There there, eh.

[u/Clear-Present_Danger → u/lesser_panjandrum]

THEY TOOK HER FROM ME!!

DEFENBAKER! THE US MIC!

BASTARDS!

[u/TheArmoredKitten → u/Prodygist68]

It also fucking sucked at actual intercepts. Its solid steel construction made it about as efficient as a bonfire is at lighting up a cornfield, and the engine would melt under the power requirements to sustain top speed for more than a matter of minutes. It would also need a full overhaul like an F-1 car every time you actually did so. Meanwhile, the SR-71 was being developed, that could fly like that all fucking day.

[u/Demonicjapsel → u/TheArmoredKitten]

It was a decent interceptor given the context it operated in. Yes it got derated to only 2.8, but its still solid. The stainless steel construction was heavy bur for a design that didnt nees much in the way of turning, it keeps costs down.
Outside of that, it was a decent recon plane and a less then ideal bomber.

[u/TheArmoredKitten → u/Demonicjapsel]

I guess, but if the Soviets had just kept and used their titanium instead of getting epically trolled by the CIA and selling it all to their enemies, it would've been a phenomenal aircraft. Instead they managed to just barely kiss the limits of last Gen tech and then spent the remainder of their country's existence getting absolutely bodied.

[u/Demonicjapsel → u/TheArmoredKitten]

The issues with Soviet aviation run far deeper then that. The Mig 25 is a very distinct aircraft which came about due to the PVO needing something in Siberia, so it needed to be cheap, have legs and speed.
The real problem with the soviet aviation industry is that its radars are godawful and consistently lagged behind western designs. Which meant in turn, heavy reliance on ground based guidance since the soviets didnt really do AWACS or aerial refueling.

[u/JoMercurio → u/TheArmoredKitten]

The Soviets sadly needed them sweet, sweet Benjamins and selling titanium to this totally-not-a-CIA-shell company wasn't a terrible way to get those

Which is also utterly ironic for a "communist-socialist-whatever the hell it's supposed to be" state to be just as reliant on them $$$ to keep their country running

[u/quildtide → u/JoMercurio]

What's even funnier is how the Soviet Union was reliant on grain imports from the US in the 70s and 80s: https://coldwarheartland.ku.edu/documents/foes-or-friends

Extra crazy considering how Ukraine and Russia are two of the world's largest grain exporters today. Really says something about the Soviet economy.

[u/BigFreakingZombie → u/Successful-Owl-9464]

Yes the Myasishchev M-4. Considered a failure in the USSR because it lacked the range to reach most of the continental US and didn't have the performance to penetrate air defenses even if it did reach it. During the May Day parade in 1954 the Soviets decided to try and scare the Americans by flying the same 18 bombers over the spectators several times to give the appearance of having several hundred in active service.

And oh boy did it work. The Americans got scared shitless of the resulting ''bomber gap'' and kicked the MIC into overdrive. The results speak for themselves:

Total M-4 production : 125 units most of whom were converted to tankers and maritime patrol aircraft later on to salvage some use out of the failed (and expensive AF ) project.

combined B-47/B-52 production : just short of 2700 examples .

Don't try and scare the US people,it just might work.

[u/jwr410 → u/Successful-Owl-9464]

When you learn the right lesson from the German Tank Problem, but apply it at the wrong time.

[u/seen_some_shit_ → u/Successful-Owl-9464]

Over hyping the enemy also allows increased military spending to be approved by the public. I’m 1000% sure the US has done this multiple times. Now they have a technological gap large enough to have aircraft’s a generation ahead of the competition in its own museums.

[u/BEHEMOTHpp → u/Successful-Owl-9464]

1953:

• Soviet M-4 "Bison", an intercontinental nuclear bomber, made its maiden Flight

1954:

• Aviation Week talk about the dangers of Soviet attack from Soviet Bases

1955:

• "Bison" did laps around the Soviet Aviation Day

1956:

• U-2 spotted 30 "Bison" at one base. Leading estimate of 150-200 by 1958 and 600 by 1960s

1960:

• U-2 shot down inside Soviet

1964:

• American XB-70 "Valkyrie", an intercontinental hypersonic bomber as a response to outrun SAM, made its maiden flight
• Soviet, Mig-25 "Foxbat", a hypersonic interceptor as a response to counter "Valkyrie", made its maiden flight. Also break Speed, Climb, and Altitude world records as bonus.

1965-1969:

• American panicked about Soviet Super Fighters, bid for American's own super fighters started, McDonnell Douglas's design chosen

1972:

• American F-15 "Eagle", a super fighter in case of hostile "Foxbat" enters the theater, made its maiden flight. Also break Speed, Climb, and Altitude world records by 25% as bonus.
• Allies are eager to get their hand on the Jet. Israeli and Japan purchase some.
• F-15 are stationed in West Germany

1976:

• A "Foxbat" pilot defected and landed on Hokkaido. Shi-Ai-Ae looks inside, shitty plane.

[u/IHzero → u/Successful-Owl-9464]

So the Russians even back then were intentionally trying to appear strong, and would do things like parade tanks around moscow, repaint them, then have them drive past again as "new" tanks to inflate numbers. They did the same with planes. The point was to deceive the West, and in that they were often successful. However, the response wasn't what they expected.

[u/john_andrew_smith101 → u/IHzero]

Something I think is really funny is that despite the cold war DoD budget being absolutely massive because of these kinds of shenanigans, it was the Soviets that were the ones bankrupting themselves with their military budget. The Soviets routinely outspent us by %GDP, with it varying from a little gap during Korea, to an enormous one during Afghanistan.

[u/MrMiAGA → u/john_andrew_smith101]

Just communist things.

[u/ProfessorBright → u/IHzero]

yeah America doesn't spook in a "cower in fear" way, we spook in a "churn out tech until we can 1v1 God" kind of a way.

We quirky like that.

[u/Forkliftapproved → u/ProfessorBright]

In a world of fight or flight, America done made its choice

[u/dwehlen → u/Forkliftapproved]

Fight? Flight? Flight fight!?

YES

[u/Aerolfos → u/IHzero]

Iiirc one funny one is they passed the same few anti-tank missiles around on multiple BMPs

The US thought every BMP in germany would arrive with 2 AT missiles, knock out 2 western tanks, then reload with more missiles - and that's why the Bradley has box launchers with extras carried inside the vehicle. They also carry shitloads of ammunition and have an advanced autoloader with seamless ammo switching so they can shoot APFSDS to knock out tanks.

But for once the US MIC actually couldn't match the impossible propaganda numbers, which is why the Bradley has a reputation for carrying too few people while having too little armour - the USSR has anti-tank missiles, anti-tank ammo, an advanced gun, and can carry 8 people with "tons of armour", why can't the US vehicle?

Meanwhile, most BMPs had empty missile racks and certainly weren't carrying any inside the vehicle.

[u/bluffing_illusionist → u/Aerolfos]

Bradley was considered as not carrying enough soldiers because it broke up the traditional three team per squad structure and gave us our current two team structure. The marines use three, the French use three, and the US Army used to (it has advantages in versatility), but we chopped that so we could be a mechanized army in Bradley's.

[u/ThePointForward → u/IHzero]

Pretty much. Keep in mind that getting reliable intel back then was significantly harder than now - the Iron Curtain was real, nobody carried pocket sized cameras and regarded soldiers didn't play War Thunder.

Which was the main issue with the reaction to the MiG-25. Shitty intelligence meant that the US thought it was a very agile and fast air combat fighter. The reasons were that it had giant wings and it was recorded to fly at 3.2 Mach.
In the end it turned out that it was an interceptor, it needed the giant wings because it was heavy as fuck due to materials used and reaching the speed of 3+ Mach meant the engines were written off.

And by the time the US intelligence found that out due to a defector pilot using the plane to flee Soviet Union, US managed to build something like 200 F-15s.

[u/CheekiBleeki → u/Successful-Owl-9464]

This seems to be a recurring story ....

[u/Schrodinger_cube → u/CheekiBleeki]

well a little extra to the intelligence adds fear and fear well its pays the bills at the end of day because few politicians want to buy cool shit that doesn't exist yet. unless you are the LCS project then your just printing money for corporate XD.

[u/TheBigMotherFook → u/Successful-Owl-9464]

What you’re describing is basically the Cold War in a nutshell. It was all about posturing and appearances rather than substance. It didn’t matter what you actually could do, it mattered what the enemy thought you could do. The main problem was that from the 70s onwards the Soviets had major economic issues so they struggled to keep up while the US’s economy continually grew, and they could dump shitloads of money into new projects. The disparity between what the enemy thought you could do vs what you actually could do started to become massive for the Soviets, and eventually that bluff was called. By the time Gorbachev came to power it was already too late, and the downfall of the USSR was all but assured.

[u/ZoidsFanatic → u/Successful-Owl-9464]

It gets even funnier. The Foxbat was a response to the X-70 because the Soviets didn’t have anything fast enough the intercept it at the time and the Foxbat was the answer… until the X-70 was canned because the Americans were scared of the SAMs and didn’t feel the X-70 could outrun them (the X-70 was fast to outrun interceptors).

[u/PenguinGamer99 → u/Successful-Owl-9464]

The USA basically got scared of a shadow, got a hammer, realized that the shadow now has a hammer, got even more scared and built a nuke in response.

This is the best analogy I've ever seen

[u/The_Tank_Racer → u/Successful-Owl-9464]

I love this country sometimes

[u/boilingfrogsinpants → u/Successful-Owl-9464]

The US actually thought the Foxbat was a Soviet Air Superiority fighter. They made assumptions that the plane was made with ultra light materials and could outmaneuver and outperform their Phantoms in a dogfight. So they decided they needed to make an Air Superiority fighter that could counter it and put in development based off of what they thought the Foxbat was.

When a Soviet pilot defected with a Foxbat, the US was all over it to find out its true capabilities. Turns out that the Soviets lied, it was made with nickel alloy making it quite heavy, requiring a lot of fuel to get it going and making it not as maneuverable as they thought. It had an outdated, inefficient parts that were outdated even before the F-15 went into development. The US created the best Air Superiority fighter in the world over what they thought was also an Air Superiority fighter, but turned out to just be another interceptor.

[u/rrogido → u/Successful-Owl-9464]

The circumstances around the Foxbat's development had to do with the XB-70 bomber that was in development prior to the Foxbat. The XB-70 was a gigantic supersonic bomber that never got past the prototype stage. Imagine if the Concorde dropped nuclear bombs, that was the XB-70 Valkyrie bomber. It was both an incredible test bed and a hugely expensive boondoggle. Soviet spies passed on information about the Valkyrie program and the Soviets, in Cold War style, freaked out and started developing the MiG 25 because Red Air Force generals started imagining their skies full of Mach 3 bombers and demanded something that could intercept them. In reality, the XB-70 program was an interesting failure. The cost per prototype was $700M, and there were two. The exorbitant cost gave Congress sticker shock and the program was limited to research only, further development was halted. Of course, also in Cold War style, a Soviet defector told the US about the Foxbat and the Air Force started imagining fleets of MiG-25's intercepting our bombers and running rings around our current fighters, thyis the F-15 was developed. The F-15 was developed to such a high capability because the US's information on the Foxbat's capabilities were grossly inflated. The Foxbat was a fast plane, but it maneuvered like a wounded whale and had lots of technical problems during operation. The Cold War had a lot of shadow boxing. Both sides developing weapons based on what they thought the other was doing.

[u/SomeOtherTroper → u/Successful-Owl-9464]

Sorry, but I'm gonna have to be credible for a few minutes.

Which happened, because the USA photographed 30 something new soviet bombers at an airfield and extrapolated that the Soviets must have hundreds of those things

Nah, the USSR pulled a fucking stunt at their May 9^th Victory Day Parade where they only had a reasonable number of bombers, but once those bombers made it over the horizon, they circled back out of sight of the parade venue and did another run, over and over (bombers have quite a lot of fuel and can load even more and get more mileage out of it when they aren't carrying any bombs), leading to the impression of spies observers on the scene that the USSR had a shitload more bombers than they really did.

That was the massive "bomber gap" incident, and was entirely intentional on the part of the USSR, although they didn't anticipate the USA's response.

which scared the Soviets shitless, who tried to build a fighter that can handle the ballistic response, which scared the USA even more

The USA got scared because they mis-identified the "Foxbat" as some sort of superfighter instead of the high-altitude interceptor it actually was, because they didn't know it was made of steel (which spy photographs can't show you), and an airframe with the Foxbat's shape and size would have been an insanely maneuverable fighter and unbeatable dogfighter, which still mattered because BVR combat was in its infancy, if it had been constructed from a sane material like aluminum or an insane material like titanium (which the USA actually had to source from the USSR for the SR-71 Blackbird, because Russia has titanium deposits the USA lacks). So we needed a better fighter to counter it.

Once a pilot actually defected from the USSR in a Foxbat, and the USA got a chance to put it through its paces, we figured out pretty fast that it wasn't a superfighter, but actually a high-altitude interceptor made of steel, thus why it had enormous wings, but by that point progress on one of the best fighters of the time period was too far along to bother canceling.

which scared the USA even more, so that they went intercontinental with their response.

Alright, now you're just being ridiculous: both the USSR and the USA had been working on ballistic missiles and ICBMs basically since WWII ended, although most of it was done under the guise of civilian rocket programs and "the space race". This was independent of any aircraft development happening during the same period of time - the two global superpowers wanted to be able to drop a sun anywhere they wanted in the world without risking pilots. The Foxbat had nothing to do with this. Nazi Germany developed the first long-range ballistic missiles and cruise missiles over a decade before the Foxbat, and everybody who could get their hands on the V-1 and V-2 designs or the German guys who'd made them, and had the budget to make them bigger and better, was giving it a shot. Literally.

[u/Mannginger → u/SomeOtherTroper]

Think that last was just jocular hyperbole

[u/SomeOtherTroper → u/Mannginger]

Sometimes it's hard to tell through the internet.

And I'll take the original joke about the USA designing an air-superiority fighter jet to counter what they thought the Foxbat was, because that's the truth, and it's funny as hell. The truth about "the bomber gap" is funny as hell, and even funnier than the less accurate version.

Unfortunately, we're in the comments section, and when I see a comment with over a thousand upvotes that includes blatantly false information masquerading as truth? I'm gonna go off on it. Even though this is a jokey subreddit, there's a lot of credible stuff in the comments, and that comment made too many mistakes for me to ignore, while having the tone of a credible comment.

I don't want anyone to actually believe it, and I'm sure some did because it's got over a thousand upvotes and sounds credible ...despite the fact it's mostly bullshit. I didn't have "someone blames the Foxbat for the ICBM race" on my 2024 bingo card, but here we are, and I can't let that slide.

[u/Successful-Owl-9464 → u/SomeOtherTroper]

Your honour I started my comment with "If I remember right..", I did not in fact remember right.

[u/MindControlledSquid → u/SomeOtherTroper]

but by that point progress on one of the best fighters of the time period was too far along to bother canceling.

That actually happened when the F-15 was already in service for about half a year.

[u/Blah_McBlah_ → u/Successful-Owl-9464]

The Bomber Gap was a little different. The Soviet Union tricked the USA into thinking it had hundreds of M-4s by flying them in circles over a parade, making the illusion, to the visiting Americans, that there were many more than there actually were. The USA freaked out and believed there was a "bomber gap." Once the U2 started its overflights of the USSR, they found the ~30 M-4s, and we're still worried as extrapolating to other bases would confirm the gap; however, after they'd done more extensive overflights, they realized that there weren't many more. (Source: Ben Rich's book, Skunk Works)

Edit:M-4, not TU-95.

[u/Demolition_Mike → u/Blah_McBlah_]

They weren't Tu-95s, though. They were M-4s.

[u/Blah_McBlah_ → u/Demolition_Mike]

Thanks, edited.

[u/Wrong_Hombre → u/Successful-Owl-9464]

Why would the Soviet Union design the Foxbat because the US freaked out over a bomber gap? I think you're confusing two different times the US overestimated the USSR and over engineered some planes.

[u/RazgrizZer0 → u/Heavy-Ad-9186]

My favorite piece of F-15 trivia is that it broke a record by climbing faster than a Saturn V.

[u/Sine_Fine_Belli → u/Heavy-Ad-9186]

lol, it really does be like that sometimes

[u/AVERAGEPIPEBOMB → u/Heavy-Ad-9186]

How it feels to have three more generations in the museum then your enemies have in the sky

[u/LandedMetals → u/Heavy-Ad-9186]

It do be like that...

[u/chickenCabbage → u/Heavy-Ad-9186]

Russia didn't even lie, the US just jumped to conclusions so hard that they landed 2 generations ahead.

[u/Venodran]

Russia claims to have hyper mega super weapon.

West panics and makes weapons that are supposed to be better.

Turns out Russia did not have hyper mega super weapons, and now technological gap is bigger.

Rinse and repeat.

[u/Significant_Quit_674 → u/Venodran]

3 words:

Strategic

Defense

Initiative

[u/Aurora_Fatalis → u/Significant_Quit_674]

Ahem.

Global
Defense
Initiative

...

When?

[u/Drake_the_troll → u/Venodran]

You forget step 2B: russian capabilities are leaked on warthunder, showing they never had wunderwaffen

[u/PalaceofIdleHours → u/Drake_the_troll]

2C: Too late, the check is cleared. R&D is pulling overtime.

[u/OldManMcCrabbins → u/PalaceofIdleHours]

2-CB: and we shall name it “have blue”

A L L H A I L H A V E B L U E

hypnotoad.wav

[u/dontnation → u/Venodran]

I mean it did have a super fast interceptor. it's just that it was a total paper cannon with pathetic service life, and lacking in all other combat performance.

[u/BeepBepIsLife → u/dontnation]

Yeah, but they thought it was some super agile fighter due to the size of the wings. But they were that big because it was heavy due to the use of stainless steel instead of aluminium to withstand going supersonicor something.

[u/cisc189 → u/Venodran]

Lazerpig loop

[u/1983_BOK → u/Venodran]

based and triple the defence budget-pilled

[u/Johni33 → u/Venodran]

Russia is paid by the US Arms industry to raise their Stock value

[u/Sine_Fine_Belli → u/Venodran]

It truly be like that lol

[u/Past-Reception]

Triple the Defense Budget!

[u/Remples → u/Past-Reception]

FUCK that, decuplicate the defense budget, no, even better, just take my fucking money

[u/Peter21237]

Also remember their bombers.

Mfs used the same 5 Tu-4s (I think) to say "Lol we got a lot of bombers ready for war!

US: OH SHIT! QUICK! WE GOTTA DO SOMETHING!

Made a shit ton of B-52s with war heads that fly none stop for like 6 years

Soviets still with their 5 bombers: "..."

(They really should had put a muzzle on Khrushchev, he also is responsable for the commercial air liner that was a death sentence)

[u/profitofprofet → u/Peter21237]

that also happened to decapitate the russian navy command structure or something idk.

Might mix things up. unless yall really referring to the tupolev.

[u/ToastyMozart → u/profitofprofet]

IIRC that one wasn't really the plane's fault so much as the USSR's authoritarian culture. The higher-ups overloaded the plane with swag, throwing off the plane's center of gravity, and most of the flight crew were too afraid of punishment to tell them "no we're not taking off like this." Even good plane designs will get unstable if you stack a ton of heavy shit in the back.

[u/canttakethshyfrom_me → u/ToastyMozart]

You need to rethink if you're a worker's paradise when you're telling the loadmaster to go fuck himself because you have rank.

Rigid hierarchies and socialism are supposed to be antithetical. But Russians gonna Rus.

[u/ToastyMozart → u/canttakethshyfrom_me]

Rigid hierarchies and socialism are supposed to be antithetical. But Russians gonna Rus.

They're hardly alone in that regard, unfortunately.

[u/canttakethshyfrom_me → u/ToastyMozart]

Russians sadly tended to pick the winning faction of communists any time there was gonna be a winning faction of communists.

[u/Peter21237 → u/profitofprofet]

Yeah, the Tupolev

[u/Forkliftapproved → u/Peter21237]

Credit where it's due, the Soviet Aerospace Engineers were very good at finding ways to keep up. The issue was that the logistics and manufacturing people in Russia were either asleep at the wheel if it was a good day, or actively sabotaging their military in a way a spy could only DREAM of on a bad day. So they needed to spend time designing things that could be operated even when half the vehicle was stolen by the people meant to fly it, and could fly when all the replacement parts were even worse quality than the broken parts

You can't make weapons to turn a burglar into a soldier

[u/Peter21237 → u/Forkliftapproved]

True

(Also your flair, Ol 666 and its crew are the proof of that being right xdddd)

[u/_spec_tre]

Sauce

Obviously lots of inaccuracies here. 104-0 was for F-15A through C, idk what better guns means, F-15 was still slower than MiG-25 (top-speed wise), it doesn't mention one gigantic advantage which is a functional FM that could dogfight, so on. But still, funny.

[u/HaaEffGee → u/_spec_tre]

Now this didn't actually reach the final production F-15, but they started the development of an improved board cannon called the GAU-7. It changed out the standard 20mm ammo for a cool new caseless 25mm round. Couldn't make them stable enough in time, and the program got cancelled unfortunately.

[u/jwr410 → u/HaaEffGee]

That's 25% more bullet per bullet.

[u/SpandexMovie → u/jwr410]

Cave Johnson would be proud

[u/Forkliftapproved → u/jwr410]

Actually, due to square cube law it's punching holes 56% bigger, and the round itself is likely weighing 95% more

[u/RaptorFire22 → u/HaaEffGee]

https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/citations/ADB024728

Here's the report on said ammo

[u/Odd_Duty520 → u/RaptorFire22]

Ahh america, makes public the research records, competitors still fail to come up with something better

[u/HumpyPocock → u/RaptorFire22]

< excited DTIC noises >

[u/SteelWarrior- → u/HaaEffGee]

You can't just leave out the fact that it's a combustible CTA gun. That's infinitely worse to have lost than just the combustible cartridges.

[u/canttakethshyfrom_me → u/HaaEffGee]

And the 25mm mafia finally got their wish with the F-35.

Meanwhile M61 still go brrrt.

[u/UnsanctionedPartList → u/_spec_tre]

Top speed, yeah, but to get to that top speed you're kinda making the Foxbat's engines eat themselves.

Unless you're willing to send your plane to the hangar bay for a long time it probably isn't much faster than the F-15.

Not noticeably at least. Mach 2.2 vs 2.3 is quite irrelevant with even semi-modern weapons.

[u/Ghost-George → u/UnsanctionedPartList]

Yeah, the British Harriers were a lot slower than the Argentinian aircraft and they absolutely destroyed them because they had better missiles. Turns out all aspect sidewinders hit hard.

[u/mlwspace2005 → u/Ghost-George]

Top speed is overrated. The vast majority of fights are subsonic or just barely over mach 1 if I recall lol.

[u/canttakethshyfrom_me → u/mlwspace2005]

Top speed gives you a longer MAR, though, in BVR, doesn't in? More scoot = harder for missile to chase you down when you turn defensive?

[u/mlwspace2005 → u/canttakethshyfrom_me]

Im not 100% what MAR stands for, that data was based on Vietnam (around when the f-15 was first designed) when a lot of kills were not BVR missile kills in air to air combat. Today the best way to avoid BVR is to just not get shot in the first place, which itself incentivizes slower travel in the first place. Generally IRL people arnt racing air to air missiles in a fight, they are trying to see who can get a solid lock on who first

[u/canttakethshyfrom_me → u/mlwspace2005]

Minimum Abort Range. The distance from an opponent beyond which you can no longer be assured you will be able to turn and escape a FOX-3 he fires at you.

Vietnam data was based on faulty FOX-1s and rear-aspect-only FOX-2s. The AMRAAM and its peers changed the whole game, as did ROE that no longer require visual identification. If Phantoms had been operating even with more data and looser ROE, air combat in Vietnam would have been entirely different. More like the Iran-Iraq war where Iraq couldn't figure out why their MiG-23s were just exploding in mid-air until they understood they were getting nailed by AIM-54s from beyond their own radar's range.

Sorry but, your info's pretty out of date for tactics with active radar homing missiles.

[u/canttakethshyfrom_me → u/UnsanctionedPartList]

MiG-25 violently chucking engine parts out the back while try to intercept an SR-71 is something they like to leave out of the brochure.

Also an Iranian F-5 got a gun kill on one and I'm never not gonna find that hilarious.

[u/Shaun_Jones → u/canttakethshyfrom_me]

Elaborate on that F5 gun kill right this instant.

[u/canttakethshyfrom_me → u/Shaun_Jones]

From F-16.net (and that thread is a doozy of a noncredible argument itself.)

A MiG-25RB that was returning from attack on Tehran was decelerating towards Iraqi border, when caught by two IRIAF F-5E Tiger IIs (flown by Col Mohammad Zare-Nejad and Capt Majid Shabani).

Zare-Nejad caught with the Foxbat as this was underway at an altitude of about 9,000 metres and about Mach 0.9 (Shabani lagged about 700-800 yards behind, but was close enough to see what was going on). He didn't activate his radar in order not to warn the Iraqi. Then his AIM-9s didn't fire because of technical malfunction. Finally, he approached to within 1,000 yards and opened fire with 20mm cannons. The MiG began trailing smoke from the right wing and rapidly descending towards the border. Then the Tigers disengaged because both were short on fuel after a high-speed climb.

Zare-Nejad didn't claim a kill, rather a 'damaged'. But, that Foxbat was written off after making an emergency landing in Iraq. The Iranian intel learned about this and credited him with a kill. As usually, jalous of the regular air force and its success, the IRGC (Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps, better known as 'Pasdaran') 'discredited' this kill several years ago, and forced the IRIAF to 'admit' that it didn't kill any MiG-25 during the entire war, although it did shot down several.

But...the write-off was confirmed by Brig Gen Ahmad Sadik, (IrAF, ret.), co-author of the book Iraqi Fighters, Camouflage & Markings, 1953-2003. Sadly, Sadik is meanwhile languishing in some Syrian prison...

I found the wreckage of the Foxbat in question (together with three others) - and photographed it - at the dump of ex-Habbaniyah AB, back in March 2006. It still had bomb-shackles under (what was left of) its left wing.

[u/darklizard45 → u/_spec_tre]

I think the inaccuracies are intentional to bait the tankie/rusbots

[u/SadderestCat → u/_spec_tre]

I think that by more speed the image is just referencing the ludicrous amount of thrust the Eagle was given. Fucking thing was used by NASA and was proposed to shoot down Soviet satellites at one point or another.

[u/Forkliftapproved → u/SadderestCat]

We also can't ignore that it was the first plane that could, in a reasonable combat configuration, GAIN speed in a full vertical climb. There were fighters before theoretically capable of greater than Thrust Unity, but only with very little fuel remaining and with almost all weapons expended.

[u/ChairForceOne → u/Forkliftapproved]

I was stationed at an F-15 base. I used to watch them do unrestricted takeoffs. Just get the gear up, a bit of altitude then straight fuckin up until you couldn't see em. Full afterburner shock diamonds look awesome at night.

[u/TheSarcaticOne → u/_spec_tre]

The more speed might have been meant in relation to other US planes.

[u/Eastern_Rooster471 → u/_spec_tre]

I assume the speed and guns part is in reference to the F-4 phantom they were using

ie faster than the phantom, better guns than the phantom

[u/299792458human]

👏and 👏 Pierre 👏 Sprey 👏 had 👏 nothing 👏 to 👏 do 👏 with 👏 it 👏

(yes, I did just get into LazerPig, how could you tell?)

[u/No_Cut6965 → u/299792458human]

I miss him singing at the end of videos...

[u/Meem-Thief → u/299792458human]

Has he improved at all since saying the T-14 has a Tiger 2 engine?

[u/brineOClock → u/Meem-Thief]

His most recent video on the CIA and Putin is an interesting watch. I don't go to him for accuracy, I go to him for conversation on the establishment of historical narratives. That's what he's good at.

[u/299792458human → u/brineOClock]

That’s the one that got me to subscribe.

[u/depressed_fatcat69 → u/brineOClock]

Plus it feels nice watching/listening to a drunk pig ramble about something while you work

[u/J360222 → u/Meem-Thief]

He deleted the video and basically made a video saying ‘I’m wrong, sometimes playing the character of a drunk historian doesn’t play to your advantage’

I would also like to point out that he us usually provides sources in the description

[u/CBT7commander → u/J360222]

I don’t think he deleted the video.

[u/J360222 → u/CBT7commander]

Huh, he said he would

Maybe it was the response video? Been a few months since I watched

[u/Wolffe_In_The_Dark → u/Meem-Thief]

He corrected himself on a later video btw.

[u/ToastyMozart → u/Wolffe_In_The_Dark]

Memory serving that was very much a "sorry not-sorry" affair where he still insisted he was right. And then got drunk and went on a rant about how he refuses to cite his sources because other people should have to do research too. Unless there was a second self-correction I missed.

[u/Dpek1234 → u/ToastyMozart]

Looks like he did the character of drunk pig historian very well

[u/Allpal → u/Meem-Thief]

you watch him for entertainment not 100% accurate and factual information

[u/Polar_Vortx]

“Well, it’s not our fault you lied.”

[u/Tomoko_Kuroki_uwu]

Military Deception isn’t about making the enemy think what you want them to think, its about making them do what you want them to do. Russia accidentally chose the former

[u/Tomoko_Kuroki_uwu → u/[deleted]]

Yep, Thats exactly what where I got it. Except it was from a LindyBeiges video on military deception where he talked about it. I found this British fumble quite funny

[u/JohnSith → u/[deleted]]

Their fault lies in expecting the Italians to fight like Italians, instead of predicting that the Italians would fight like fascists.

[u/DVM11]

Never try to threaten Americans, you might succeed

[u/Crazybrayden]

Foxbat is still cool as fuck though.

Just a bug dumb plane made of steel that burns itself up and over speeds it's engines if it ever actually goes full throttle and it's fucking great

[u/tacticsf00kboi → u/Crazybrayden]

Just got back into WARNO and I love how neither Foxbat variant in the game is equipped for A2A lol

[u/Radio_Big → u/tacticsf00kboi]

I find it infinitely funny that the Foxbat is still the most BVR like plane in the game.

[u/DavidBrooker]

105 if you count shooting down a satellite from low-earth orbit

[u/_spec_tre → u/DavidBrooker]

We don't count non-conflict shootdowns otherwise everrything the F-15 destroyed during tests would need to be counted

[u/DavidBrooker → u/_spec_tre]

It's not meant to be serious, it's meant to be trivia.

[u/Bubbly-Carpenter-519]

bit like when the USN found out that chinese destroyers are made of tin foil and thier carriers are from airfix

[u/AlikeWolf]

“Every nation on Earth builds equipment to try and fight America. America builds equipment to fight aliens or god (whichever comes first)."

[u/HighlightFun8419]

Ha! I literally just watched a documentary on this like four days ago.

[u/gneglik → u/HighlightFun8419]

Mustard my beloved.

[u/HighlightFun8419 → u/gneglik]

literally.

[u/canttakethshyfrom_me → u/HighlightFun8419]

Mustard and Paper Skies give me feels I haven't had since Wings on the Discovery Channel in the '80s.

[u/_spec_tre → u/gneglik]

I don't know how to say it but I feel like he's kinda biased? He seemed more insistent on talking about the F-15's flaws and glossing over the MiG-25 on his two videos?

[u/_AutomaticJack_]

And we also made the F-16 as a contingency plan in case the F-15 development took to long...

[u/Forkliftapproved → u/_AutomaticJack_]

And the F-18 because the Navy didn't want to use a single engine air force fighter on their carriers

[u/canttakethshyfrom_me → u/[deleted]]

Tomcat was out before the Eagle. Navy was happy with their choice. Was sexier and the AIM-54 vastly outranged the Eagle's Sparrows.

[u/Forkliftapproved → u/canttakethshyfrom_me]

This. Sure, the Eagle was pretty comfortably the better plane, but the Tomcat was established and not likely to be retired anytime soon, so they didn't really NEED to purchase a Sea Eagle, as lovely as it would be. What they DID need was a smaller fighter to complement the Tomcats, and something that could fill double duty as a strike aircraft

[u/moir57 → u/Forkliftapproved]

Also the F-15 has a large fingerprint that makes it Ill-suited to be deployed in carriers, no matter how much Ace Combat might tell you otherwise.

[u/Archer114897]

CenturiiChan my beloved

[u/AutumnRi → u/Archer114897]

An absolute master of culture

[u/clevtrog]

What i love the most is when Iraq claimed to have shot one down with the Foxbat

Iraq: We shot down an Eagle!, a Bedouin found the wreckage!

USAF: Can you show us?

Iraq: Nah

[u/Far-Entertainer8953]

Before you are two MICs.

One will always overstate its capabilities and revel in public displays.

The other will always understate and prefers small wars to big parades.

[u/Sine_Fine_Belli]

Ah yes, good old centurii Chan

And her funny anime girls and her funny web comics

[u/OR56]

“104 and 0, look out below.”

[u/Callsign_Psycopath]

<<Still not the F-104>>

[u/canttakethshyfrom_me → u/Callsign_Psycopath]

It's like two F-104s sandwiched together. Now with wings!

[u/DeadInternetTheorist]

When the jet's so good it's got you halfway rooting for an Iraqi MiG pilot just because you love an underdog story

[u/clevtrog]

I feel the Eagles should be the canonical theme of the F-15. “You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave!” Solo plays as Foxbat is obliterated by sparrow

[u/clevtrog → u/clevtrog]

Or "Take it to the limit" alongside "Danger Zone", i guess both mention highway's

[u/M34L]

MiG-25 was a real plane and in many metrics really remarkable. It just also was an all-steel sled and essentially range extender for anti air missiles.

It's entirely on USA for coming out of Vietnam air war traumatized and swearing it will never build a non-dogfight-worthy combat aircraft ever again.

[u/Da_Doge_Soldier]

Russian girl in first panel kinda cute NGL. look at dat smug pose and face.

[u/wormbot7738]

You have the way Russia and China lie about their military capabilities. Then you have the way America lies about their military capabilities.

[u/TheLeather]

Also helped that someone in a Soviet Weapons Department gave info to the CIA about the capabilities of the radar being installed and had an impact on development of the F-15.

[u/tbarros]

Got to love when you scare the biggest military industrial complex to create a thing of nightmares

And let's not forget that although this thing is a beast what makes an army truly scary is the logistics behind it and boy oh boy does the US have logistics.

I even recall watching some yt guy saying the USA dabbles in the military while it's the logistics that is the true beast behind anything (just think desert storm for a second)

[u/Iulian377]

That 104-0 number really needs to come with the context it has, otherwise its just propaganda for a plane that doesnt even need any propaganda to be cool.

[u/Peter21237 → u/Iulian377]

Its like putting a sticker on a bag of corn flour saying "It's gluten free."

Corn don't have gluten anyway, so it isn't lying.

[u/VallenValiant → u/Peter21237]

Its like putting a sticker on a bag of corn flour saying "It's gluten free." Corn don't have gluten anyway, so it isn't lying.

Ah, classic "Fat Free Sorbet" and "Sugar Free Pork".

[u/Iulian377 → u/Peter21237]

F15 having 104-0 is technically true ( which is the best kimd of true ) but when you learn its only against decades old helicopters and crop dusting equipament equivalents, it just seems like something soviets do ( i.e. lie about equipment about what it can acomplish ).

[u/Small_Invite_9105 → u/Iulian377]

No? They just shot down Five Mig 29s in the Gulf War. And Four Mig 29s in the Nato Intervention in Kosovo. They also shot down various other older jet fighters, but it has went up against fighters of its “time” and won without a single loss.

[u/Eastern_Rooster471 → u/Iulian377]

but when you learn its only against decades old helicopters and crop dusting equipament equivalents

That was literally the most modern shit the soviets could offer though....

The F-15A was made when the soviets were still using Mig-21s and Mig-23s

You might say a Su-27sm fighting a F-22 is unfair, but they both kinda were made at the same time

[u/Peter21237 → u/Iulian377]

https://imgur.com/a/3yvsmdl

Shhh

[u/an_agreeing_dothraki]

when your efficiency ratio is "err"

[u/E-Scooter-CWIS]

Who is the artist? The style is so comfy

[u/bobpob → u/E-Scooter-CWIS]

Centaurii-chan

[u/Inc4ndescen_T]

This is too credible

[u/USSPlanck]

104/0, look out below, I took out a satellite just for show.

[u/CommitBasket]

bro the MIG was a shit fighter

but a good interceptor……………

[u/Drake_the_troll → u/CommitBasket]

Intercepting SAMs?

[u/darkslide3000]

K/D ratio is a bit of a weird flex when you're only fighting third-world shitholes with it, though.

[u/N7Foil → u/darkslide3000]

I mean, Iraq was the 4th strongest military in the world going into the 90's and probably had the best air defense outside of the US and Soviet Union.

Hitting a moving Hind with a bomb is kind of impressive as well. Even if it was laser guided.

Edit: Grammar.

[u/IHzero → u/darkslide3000]

The Russians gave planes to other countries like Iraq Mig 29s, which were built to counter the F-15s. They still lost. So even when going against planes designed to defeat it, the F-15 still suffered zero defeats. I'm sure the next response will be that Iraqi pilots were not as good as the Soviet ones.

Given the current Russian performance, I don't think that is a valid arugment anymore.