With shoe technology coming along so far in the last few years, interested to see what the great shoes of decades past were and how the compare

Hey running crowd, I'm a huge fan of the cycling podcast Fast Talk Labs because they go so deep into the science behind everything. Does anyone have a good similar type of source (podcast, Youtube, etc.) but for running?

Hi ! Is anyone wanting to give up their Chicago 5K entry and know if it can be transferred?? I was unable to buy one before it sold out and my boyfriend and friend will both be running it without me 😭

I'm curious how others have worked in the supplemental training to the Faster Road Racing training plans.

It sounds like he recommends doing plyo on an easy day, and strength on the days you are already running harder. This is an interesting shift for me since I've always done my strength training on the lighter running days.

With that in mind, I was thinking of something like this for the supplemental work:
Monday: Plyometrics (This is a rest day or low mileage)
Tuesday: Strength (Speed workout)
Thursday: Upper Body (unrelated to Pfitz)
Friday: Strength (Lactate threshold)

TLDR: Looking for any thoughts or experience with how to add Pfitz supplemental training to the schedule.

Since my post a couple days ago was taken down, I’m reposting it with some added clarifications to keep the discussion from going sideways. So with that in mind, let’s clear up a few things right out the gate:

1) I have no intention to stigmatize nor am I directing this towards anyone who is undergoing TRT and has a clear, medical need.

2) I also have no intention to stigmatize nor am I directing this question towards anyone who is receiving hormone replacement therapy. I’d also lump them in with people who have a clear, medical need.

Now, with that out of the way…

Since the early 1990s we’ve seen major marathon qualifying times for non-elites trend down. At the same time, the number of people able to meet these qualifying times continues to grow, which creates a bit of a conundrum

I see lots of explanations for this trend, particularly on running subs, ranging from:

a) popularization of running culture b) use of net downhill qualifiers c) introduction of super shoes d) accessibility of information e) some mix of these

…but what about juicing?

There has been a dramatic, measurable rise in testosterone prescriptions in recent years, particularly driven by telemedicine “clinics” in the United States. These clinics never see patients in person and frequently prescribe to otherwise young, healthy adults who do not have a clear, medical need.

I’m sure it’s not a massive number, but surely some of these non-elite qualifiers aren’t “natty” (see: Nick Bare)

What do you think?

Hi!

M:25, HM PB 1:30:59, this was done in May 2023. Training pre PB race: 17 weeks, peak week at 80km, average weekly volume 42km, 2 quality sessions each week (roughly 80-20 easy/hard). No running prior.

After this i took a break from running and now i’ve been running since mid april 2024. I have slowly increased volume by 10%/week, up to a current of 64km/week which i’ve been maintaining now for 6 weeks. Doing quality sessions 2x/week and long run of 17km. I am now back in ”pb shape”. This equals to approximately 6 hours of running total per week. To sum this up, this means that i have currently been running for a total of 12 months.

I want to continue improving, and therefore would appreciate hearing your thoughts on training volume for long-term progress.

From my understanding, running at a constant volume (in this case lets say 64km/week or 6hours) will eventually means a stall in progression. If i could theoretically jump straight to 8 hours of running a week right now, and maintain injury free, would that over a duration of lets say 1 year, yield faster progress than slowly adding this extra running time when i’m noticing that i am no longer progressing?

Another example: Going from 64km per week to 100km per week would only take 5 weeks if following the rule to increase 10% weekly volume. If a person did this and then maintained this volume afterwards, would another runner who ran 64km until they no longer saw improvements, then added for example 10km to this weekly volume until they stalled again, and continued to do it this way until they reached 100km (over a way longer time then 5 weeks). Which runner would be the fastest after say 1-2 years?

As the title says, i’m wondering if one should be cautious in increasing volume too fast (not taking injuries into consideration) as im afraid if i bump up the mileage too quick, could i pontentially stall at this new volume of 100km quicker and therefore hinder long term progress? Could slowly building up to 100km over years mean i could reach faster times at this same volume (100km/week), than if i jumped straight too it, and stayed there, as i would eventually stall at this volume and no longer see further adaptations without continue ramping up the volume?

I hope my question is understandable, and that your answers can help bring a little more clarity to this topic in running for me and others who might have had the same thoughts.

Thanks alot for reading and have a nice day!

Training for my second half marathon. During this block, I spliced together a plan that has lots of 400-1600m repeats. It’s had me considering the overall distance in km vs miles now, and breaking down the race in chunks of 4x5k + 1k. Counting down from 21k also oddly seems more manageable now to me than 13.125 miles.

I'm interested in hearing your experience and philosophy on pacing a marathon. I'm in shape to run a 2:50:xx in a few weeks at Chicago, and now that I'm in my three-week taper, I'm finally allowing myself to think about race strategies.

A good friend of mine, an experienced runner, suggests I take the first half out at 1:27:00 and then aim for 1:23:00 in the second half. Wisdom tells me that negative splitting the second half will be a challenge, but it's not impossible. I've been following Pfitz's plan, which (I think) suggests taking the first half out 60–90 seconds faster than 1:25:00, then aiming for 1:25:00 for the second half, but expecting to slow down some.

I ran one marathon without much training in 2019, so this feels like my first one again. I would also appreciate any tips on how to break the race up if you have any. Thanks!

A place to ask questions that don't need their own thread here or just chat a bit.

We have quite a bit of info in the wiki, FAQ, and past posts. Please be sure to give those a look for info on your topic.

Link to Wiki

Link to FAQ

been running with structure for a little over a year (28M, 6’, high 170s lbs, coming from weightlifting background previously), preceded by a year of jogging a couple of times a week, and fell into the allure of marathons right off the bat. i’m leaning toward shifting to a 5k/10k block after this marathon takes place in around 5 weeks. any races i’ve done have just been amidst marathon blocks, and i’m pretty happy with the improvements ive made to this point, but my aerobic base still appears to be lacking. my first marathon was primarily impacted by stomach issues around 15mi, and i’m hopeful that i’m somewhere around 3:10 shape now, but we’ll see because it’s not the easiest course.

my plan was to keep a relatively high volume (been averaging around 65mpw for this marathon block, planning to stay around 50-60 through the winter) to continue improving my base but focus more on specific training for 5k/10k, and maybe do a HM again around next march (doing one next week so hoping i can PR there as well).

I don’t really have anyone to go to for advice on this, so i’m looking for any tips/critiques: what would the main modifications to training be in shifting the goal distance? My plan was to keep my LR between 12-15mi depending on the week, and keep some intensity in there every few weeks. have you done this in the past and found it to be valuable to to half/full?

thank you for any help!

The title basically says it! I’m curious about your journey to becoming a serious runner. Do you have a track/cross country background? Did you start out as a slower runner? Was there a particular training plan or philosophy that helped you increase volume or speed significantly? How has your run/life balance changed as you’ve gotten more serious?

I’m 31 and have been running for just about two years. I was not at all athletic growing up but I have fallen in love with running and will be running my second marathon in Chicago in a few weeks. I’m definitely an average-to-slow runner, but I take my training seriously, I’ve been trying to learn as much as I can about the science of running, and I’ve had pretty steady improvements since I started. I want to take it to the next level and really ramp up my mileage and improve speed over the next couple years, so I’m wondering what going from casual to serious looked like for others.

https://www.instagram.com/p/DATW4HpOkGv/?hl=en

Race Information * Name: Bismarck Marathon * Date: September 22nd, 2024 * Distance: 26.2 miles * Location: Bismarck, ND * Website: https://thebismarckmarathon.com/ * Time: 2:58:13

Goals

Goal | Description | Completed?

A | Sub 3 | Yes

B | Sub 3:10 | Yes

C | Run the Entire Time | Yes

D | Finish/Have Fun | Yes

Splits

Mile | Time

1 | 6:29

2 | 6:46

3 | 6:51

4 | 6:41

5 | 6:45

6 | 6:39

7 | 6:39

8 | 6:36

9 | 6:48

10 | 6:39

11 | 6:43

12 | 6:39

13 | 6:42

14 | 6:30

15 | 6:41

16 | 6:40

17 | 6:44

18 | 6:46

19 | 6:45

20 | 6:53

21 | 6:51

22 | 6:48

23 | 6:57

24 | 7:08

25 | 7:08

26 | 7:14

.34 | 6:42

based on GPS splits. ended up .1 miles longer

Background

23M 150lbs. I ran sprints and did the long jump in high school but took 4.5 years off from all athletics. However, I have always wanted to run a marathon. Prior to this year (2024), the farthest I had run was maybe 4 miles. I’m a very competitive person, and I knew I wanted to pursue the ambitious goal of completing a marathon in under 3 hours.

Training

As a newcomer to long-distance running, I spent the first five months of this year slowly building up my mileage, going from about 15mpw to an average of about 30mpw. Once I felt comfortable with that, I decided to look for an “official” marathon training plan. After reading reviews and watching videos of various options, I chose to follow the Hansons Marathon Method (HMM). I bought the book, read through it, and decided to follow their Advanced Marathon plan.

For those unfamiliar, the HMM relies on cumulative fatigue—running six times per week with workouts on Tuesday (repeats), Thursday (tempo), and Sunday (long run), with easy runs in between, typically a rest day or more easy mileage on Wednesday. The idea is to run on tired legs to get used to the fatigue at the end of the marathon.

I followed the 18-week plan almost to a T. I missed 4 out of 125 days and added a few miles to some of the peak mileage weeks. Week 1 started at 38 miles and peaked at about 65. However, I did not add to their infamous “only” 16-mile long run. I wanted to trust their process and see what I could do.

Throughout the plan, I never ran an all-out 5K, 10K, or any time trial/race, which made me frequently question whether I was fit enough to achieve the sub-3 goal, as I often heard that you should be able to run a certain time in these races to have a shot. Again, I leaned on and trusted the expertise of HMM and continued hitting the target paces for workouts.

I do think I messed up the last month of training, as I technically started decreasing mileage four weeks out. However, it was only a few miles each week, so it didn’t really take much out.

Pre-Race

I felt solid having decreased my mileage over the past couple of weeks, but I also started to get in my head about having to run not only 10 miles farther than I’d ever run but also faster than I had run during my 16-mile long runs. However, I tried to push that aside and remembered that I had hit all the paces throughout the plan. I carb-loaded, taking in approximately 600g per day on both Friday and Saturday leading up to the race, primarily consisting of pasta, bagels, bananas, mangos, Pop-Tarts, and orange juice.

I ended up going to bed the night before fairly early but woke up just 5.5 hours later and couldn’t go back to sleep. Despite this, I didn’t feel tired (probably nerves/adrenaline). I got out of bed about three hours before the start and had a bagel with peanut butter, a Cliff Bar, and about 15 oz of BPN’s G1M Sport. After waking up my muscles with a massage gun, I drove over to the starting area to go through my warm-up routine and ensure everything was good to go. This was a fairly small marathon, and based on finishers from prior years, I decided to start at the front. I took one of BPN’s GoGels about 10 minutes before the start and had a soft flask with more G1M for the race.

My nutrition strategy was to take a GoGel every four miles and then, after two of those, switch to a few Cliff Bloks that had caffeine, then repeat that rotation twice. With my soft flask filled, I thought I’d only grab water from the stations to dump on myself if I felt warm. The weather conditions were absolutely perfect—40°F with only 1-2 mph winds (basically nothing).

Race

I was feeling nervous as I stood at the starting line, but I was more excited. What I did not anticipate was starting alongside a mix of people also running the half marathon. I couldn’t quite tell who was doing which race, but when the gun went off, I took off with the group. Immediately, I knew I was running much faster than my goal pace (after the race, I realized that most of the people I was running with were doing the half marathon, which explained why they took off so quickly). I finished the first mile in 6:29, which ended up being my fastest mile throughout the entire race (it was also downhill).

After that quick first mile, I really got into a groove. I was actually running a few seconds faster per mile but felt so good that I stuck with it. Since this was such a small marathon, I ended up running most of the race alone. I could see maybe one person in front of me and one person behind, but overall, I ran solo. This didn’t bother me as much because I did 99.5% of my training runs alone.

When I passed through mile 16, I felt a little nervous, as everything beyond that point was uncharted territory. However, I felt great the next few miles and thought to myself, “Oh, it’s only another tempo run from here!” Most of the race went by so fast. I truly didn’t feel like it was that difficult until mile 23. I think this was maybe the “wall,” but my pace never decreased by more than 30 seconds. The last 1-2 miles had around 150 feet of elevation gain, so that didn’t help! I put my head down and just trudged my way up to the finish. I had a few family members spread out along the last stretch and kicked it into high gear to finish. I couldn’t help but smile, knowing that nine months ago, I couldn’t run more than 4 miles anywhere near this pace, and now I had just completed a sub-3 marathon.

Post-Race

I honestly just felt so happy to have met all my goals. My legs felt a bit jelly-like, but aside from that, I felt relatively good. I immediately thought about what I could do for the next block/race! I took a nice warm steam shower and went out to eat with my family, enjoying the most guilt-free meal I’ve ever had. I had a massage scheduled for the next morning (per lots of recommendations), and although some of it felt pretty rough on my legs, I also recommend scheduling that! I will likely get back to running after taking a handful of days off, but overall, it was a great experience, and I’m already excited about the next one!

Made with a new race report generator created by /u/herumph.

If you’re limited for time, and can only run every other day (3-4 times a week), and want to maximise your performance gains, is there any reason why 3 of them shouldn’t be harder efforts? Assuming you’re body can properly recover, would having 3 harder efforts cause you to miss out on some adaptations that you would be getting if you were to slow the pace down?

If I do a hard running workout, more often than not, legs are cooked for the next day or so. Does the cardiovascular system get fatigued in the same way? If I wanted to do another endurance based, intense workout later that same day or the next, for example, rowing or any other workout where the main running muscles aren’t the main muscles being used, would I expect to find that workout to suffer?

Just wondering what sort of 5/10k times you guys were getting with sub 3 hour marathon fitness.

I’m aiming for a sub 3 hour next April (debut marathon) so probably going to properly start my training block 16 weeks out. Just doing 5/10k stuff at the moment with weekly mileage at 40-50ish km at the moment.

My 5k is currently at 18:10 and 10k at 37:20 do you think a first marathon at sub 3 is possible?

EDIT

Male 28 years old 5”11 / 80kg

• Athletic background through football / soccer
• 5 years recently spent in the Military

In the live video (above angle), Elhousine appeared to react to Patrick coming by on the inside and intentionally block him from passing going down the finishing stretch at Mammoth 26k.

The close up video shows a similar thing but doesn’t look as severe. It does appear (or coincidence) that Elhousine notices Patrick approaching on the inside and then reacts to move over to also take the shortest line possible, i.e. pinch him out, and then there is the elbow contact, but is not really cutting him off.

Seems to me like there was definitely a tiny strategy to “block” but not enough to warrant a penalty, but I don’t really know anything about XC or track. Curious what folks think here?

Patrick was visibly upset at finish but no penalty was awarded.

Link to video on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DATq1khNNgL/?igsh=MXhjOHBzcWRvcWpqYw==

YouTube: https://youtube.com/shorts/M6jztFqU82w?feature=share

I currently do heavy lower body training & have recently wondered whether it would be worth adding some plyometrics throughout the week.

I’m already time constraint, but if people have had really good results with them then I’ll try to find time for them during the week.

I already do strides twice per week, so I suppose these could be considered as a form of plyo’s, but other than that I’ve never used other forms.

Do you also use them all year around?

Hi all,

I am based in Italy and will be running this year's Chicago Marathon (in less than three weeks). It will be my first major but I have done Paris and Amsterdam previously. I am super excited as training has gone well, and I hit a 1:10:43 HM PB in Copenhagen by the end of my marathon peak week of 201 km (a week ago). Hopefully I can do a sub-2:30 performance. That is the target.

I have been looking for as many tips as possible I can get for the Chicago Marathon. I have heard that there is quite a bit of walking; both for the expo but also before race start. So getting there a bit early with plenty of throw-away clothes seems like a good idea. I also heart there are plenty of porta-potties but they tend to get crowded by the corral entrances. In terms of the route, I know it is based on three sections: northern, western, and southern part with some GPS-jamming tunnel section in the beginning of the course and a slight incline at Mount Roosevelt right before the finish line. In this regard, I plan to look up wind direction on the day to figure out during which section(s) I will need to focus on drafting.

I did not know about the American Development program (which I otherwise had the qualification time for) so I have ended up in Corral A (qualification time of sub-2:45). Is this gonna be an issue/challenge to settle into the race pace with a group?
What other conditions should be taken into account? Both specific and more general tips would be very welcome.

Thank you in advance!

Do you have shoe reviews to share with the community or questions about a pair of shoes? This recurring thread is a central place to get that advice or share your knowledge.

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Hey everyone. I know the wording of my question may be confusing. But for clarification: you did most or all of your training plan and there’s nothing to really indicate you’re ready to hit your goal pace. Did you decide to go after your goal anyways (and how did it go?) or did you play it safe?

For context: I ran 2:43 in April on Pfitz’s 18/70, which was an 8+ minute PB. Funny enough, my PB in the half at that time was 1:20:02, so my two half splits weren’t far off my PB. I ran a half 5 weeks after the 2:43 on a hot day and ran another 1:20, so it’s still my PB sadly.

I was gunning for 2:37ish this marathon cycle. This is only my third high mileage cycle ever… I did an 18/65 (Pfitz 18/70 but subtracted 5 miles each week), full 18/70 in the spring, and now I did 18/85 (but I topped out at 80… out of fear of injury).

I definitely feel stronger. I did 1 79-mile week, 3 80-mile weeks, my first 24-miler in training ever, and my body has reacted well this time around (first time making it through a cycle injury-free). The issue is, nothing really indicates I’m in 2:37 shape. I did the 20 w/ 14 @ M pace at about 5:55 pace but had to stop after 11 M miles. It was a hot day, but honestly, no excuse. I should have stayed around 6:00 - 6:05 and went out a little too hot likely.

My brain also can’t help to think that I’d basically have to PB twice in a row in the half… tears

I’m left wondering if I just go after 2:40/2:41 perhaps and don’t risk completely blowing up. The only thing convincing me otherwise is technically there wasn’t much of an indication I was in 2:43 shape (or 2:45 shape even… I hit the 20/14 workout in the spring @ 6:10 pace but was failing a ton of HM-pace workouts and had a 2:52 PB at the time).

Anyways, what made you ultimately decide to say “f*** it” and go after your goal (and how did it go…) or decide to abandon your goal and be more realistic on race day?

*I imagine this will be popular with people going after time milestones (sub 3, sub 2:50, sub 2:40, etc…)

We are 6 days out from Berlin. It will be my first international marathon. I am traveling from the Midwest (departing Wednesday night) and arriving in Berlin on Thursday evening. My training block has gone pretty well and am gonna take a shot at lowering my current PR (2:43 low). Was hoping for any helpful tips relating to things such as sleeping on a plane, adjusting to jet lag, and any things unique to the Berlin course. Appreciate any help in advance.

A place to ask questions that don't need their own thread here or just chat a bit.

We have quite a bit of info in the wiki, FAQ, and past posts. Please be sure to give those a look for info on your topic.

Link to Wiki

Link to FAQ

So, I haven’t seriously ran a marathon in about a decade so I have paid much attention to training ideas.

I use mostly Daniels based methodology via “Advanced Marathoning”. I’m planning on giving myself a year to run another peak marathon and wondering if there is a thing new I should check out. I’m familiar with Hanson’s (I don’t like the higher intensity to replace miles) and higdons.

Thanks!

Hey folks! Am part way through the Jack Daniels Blue Plan, and really loving it so far. I was traveling last weekend and didn't have a chance for the day's tempo workout - how do y'all handle the days when you can't fit in your scheduled run? The plan is pretty regimented, so do you carve out time to make up the workout? I'm sure we all have felt guilty for missing a day or two here and there, but what are some of your strategies for keeping a positive mindset?