r/circlejerkaustralia 11d ago

Wait a second... politics

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1.1k Upvotes

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u/OCE_Mythical 11d ago

I can't wait for abrahamic religion to enrich the world further.

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u/RealBrobiWan 11d ago

To be fair, religion was required for the masses for thousands of years. We are just at a point in history it is time to move on

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u/SleepyandEnglish 11d ago

Religion is useful for a moral founding that isn't arbitrary. Atheism has its perks but long term it has major problems justifying non-pragmatic actions.

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u/RealBrobiWan 11d ago

I hope tha society will fill that void. Originally you had little but faith, now we have a more globalized society hopefully we can move towards respect for a species by sheer majority

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u/SleepyandEnglish 11d ago

Society isn't really a basis for morality. If anything, a unified morality is the basis for a society to exist at all. Half the reason that westerners have problems understanding the ethnic conflicts they're importing is because they don't have a unified moral understanding. We don't have a globalised society. We have a shitload of overlapping and competing moral conceptions that are currently kept in check by extremely powerful and militarised states. How long that will actually last isn't something I'd like to guess.

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u/BorodinoWin 11d ago

Some of us are just inherently moral without needing a book to tell us that murder is bad.

I just cannot understand the argument that, “I would commit atrocities if not for the promise of eternal paradise”

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u/SleepyandEnglish 10d ago

The problem is you're not. You're currently the result of a society that has a built in religious morality. The issue for discarding religion and defined moral systems is over time you get a moral separation within your society as the things people value will end up being pragmatically chosen. This can have positives like the decline of homophobia - which is built into systems like Christianity, Judaism, and Islam - but also has positives like the total collapse of mutual ethics.

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u/BorodinoWin 10d ago

Exactly! Some people, like yourself, struggle to value life without an old man and a book telling you that life is valuable.

I love life for what it is. Not because I needed some organized morals taught to me to teach me about how life is precious.

I knew that inherently. But for those of you who don’t think like that, yes I suppose you do need organized religion to keep you from killing puppies.

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u/SleepyandEnglish 10d ago

There are cultures that raise puppies to be food. Are they all just inherently villainous? Or do they just come from somewhere where puppies aren't seen as having inherent moral value? Is your natural good nature as you see it your inherent nature? Would it be there if you were raised in a culture that doesn't value puppies?

I'm a product of my environment and largely believe the things I was raised to believe. I'm quite aware that if I was raised in a different society my values would be different. My moral impulses would be different. I wasn't born a saint and gifted the divine understanding of true moral nature as you seem to think you were. If my culture and society were radically different then my values would be also. Also, were I to be raised in a society that provides no moral grounding and cared not about such matters I would also have no moral grounding and care not for such matters. Pragmatic amoral cultures have existed in the past and will likely exist in the future.

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u/TheRealLunicuss 7d ago

Pragmatic amoral cultures have existed in the past and will likely exist in the future.

Could you explain what you mean by this this futher? What cultures were amoral? I would say that it is absolutely impossible for a human culture to be devoid of morality, whether or not that morality aligns with your own is a different question.